Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How to deal with emotional sensitivities

DS 7 was suspended from school for rest of the day on Monday. To my horror, he was flip and disrespectful to his teacher. It started out with my son flipping ahead in his math workbook being disruptive in class. The teacher took his book away. He got up from his desk and went to the teacher's desk and took the book back. The teacher and him had a tug of war with the book.

He was sent to the counselor's office, but she was unable to calm him down. He was then sent to the Asst. Principal's office, again she was not able to bring him back to normal. Then I was called to come pick him up.

The next day I brought him to school to make sure he apologized to his teacher. I was amazed at how his whole demeanor changed as soon as we walked through the doors of the school. He has developed a barrier soon as he hits the school.

We went into a private room for him to talk to the teacher. Again, I couldn't believe his body language. He would not look at his teacher, he was turning his back to us, he was leaning on everything. He was completely tuning us out and saying what ever he thought we wanted to hear.

This is not my son. He does not act like this at home or at any other places we take him.

After having long conversations with him, I got to the root of the matter. The teacher hurt his feeling when she took his book away. This started the mad issue, to the point of no return.

He will not communicate his feeling to any one, but me. He will only tell the counselors at school, "you wont understand."

How do I help him get over the emotional sensitivities and to communicate his feeling to the right people??

I was able to see this first hand yesterday. He was in his Destination Imagination class. All the kids made something out of newspaper. He completed his creation and one of the kids crumpled it up. It set the mood for the rest of the class. He should have told some one.

I also feel his development is uneven. His emotional maturity is that of a younger child.

He is aware of how the other children treat him. He tells me, "they ignore me when I try to talk to them."

Please help!!

I don't have any advice but understand. My CJ8 is slipping into the rude disresctful thing as well. he doesn't respect them at all. I will keep an eye on this post for ideas as well.

Hi vicam,

You are having similar issues? Thank you for sharing. It makes me feel better that I'm not the only one.

so sorry about your troubles.

Has your child had any testing? Is he gifted and needing more challenge? Sometimes a little understanding and adjustments can go a long way. Last year, my DS was able to go ahead of the class on his math paper and get out his own math work book. That helped a lot. Are there any students you can arrange playdates with to nuture relationships. For my DS sports really helps connect him to others his age.

Hi Tall boys and Vicam,

We have the same issues occurring here with DS8. This is the first year it has degenerated into really disrespectful behavior. For example, DS told his teacher he would not do an assignment because it was "stupid". When told he would have to remain in for recess he said "It's better than doing a stupid assignment."
The troubles extend to peer relationships also and some days he feels accepted somewhat and other days (like yesterday) he says no one likes him and when I asked "How do you know?" he told me they tell him he is stupid and won't ask him to do things together. He is really bad about reading other peoples emotions - or rather he is really bad about noticing any kinds of details outside his own head/interests.
I have no words of wisdom but just offer the camaraderie of commiseration.

They did a battery of tests on him last year. We don't know his true IQ, he scored 127, but would not participate in the test.

He is in accelerated math, reading, and spelling. The problem is, if he doesn't see value in the work or if he feels the work is beneath him, he wont do it.

We do have play dates for him, but he doesn't like the kids in his class. He feels they don't respect him.

Thank you Breakaway4, We have heard the same thing. He has lost recess too because he refused to do "baby work".

Mine maybe removed from the gifted class where he is b/c he doesn't do reg class work. I have also noticed that he will answer some times in a very flat voice as if saying Duh I'll talk slow for you so you understand. He is not overtly saying it but the meaning is there. The teachers think he as poor affect in his voice. I think its his way of putting them down. It is interesting that all our kids are about the same age/grade. They are definitly testing limits and recognizing what is happening. I did inform mine that being smart is no excuse for rudeness. Rather it should be the other way around.

The teacher told me, if he doesn't do the regular work then he can't do the accelerated work. He has to test out of the regular work first. He hates doing the regular work.

I want to home school, but I don't know if homeschooling will just confirm he can do what he wants. He really needs to learn to deal with his emotions. On the other hand, I feel school is a unhealthy environment for him. Maybe with homeschooling, it will allow him to catch up to age level emotions, to better handle it later.

Any thoughts??

If you approach homeschooling as a choice you are making to serve his needs, and you do NOT let him always have his way, he won't feel that he can do what he wants. I am more strict with my son than any teacher would be, but because he does work that is at the correct level for him, he is much happier and more cooperative than he was.

It's all about how you approach the subject with him, I think. I use the words "better fit" or "good fit" a lot to explain our school choices. I work very hard NOT to blame the school or the teacher, nor to blame him. We're just trying to find a good fit for him.

The fact is, your son knows that the current situation is not working better than anyone. I daresay that's much of his acting out. Responding in a way that could help solve the problem is not "giving in" on your part. So don't approach it as if it were and you'll be fine.

Rules are key! Homeschooling is still school! It should be more fun than what he's going through, certainly, but it should be fun because the work is more challenging.

I think of it this way: a kid who is hungry acts up because his needs aren't being met. We don't keep food from him because "that might teach him that he's the boss"--we feed him because that's what he needs! A kid who is hungry to learn is exactly the same thing.

Meet his needs. That's not giving in!

Home schooling is not an option for me as a single parent. Plus I want to make the school do their job not only for my son but all the others going through similar situations who don't have advocates.

Kriston, you have such great insight and advice. Thank you for putting it in perspective.

We are strict with our children. Both of our parents were strict with us, so it's the only thing we know.

Now to get my letter of intent out to the superintendent. I want to pull them before Christmas and give them a little time to decompress. I was going to wait till after the holidays, but because of resent developments, I want them out NOW.

I can understand where you're coming from. I felt the same way, but I have been hitting a brick wall since the beginning. I'm tired of fighting. I want to use my energy in other avenues now.

We don't have gifted ed in our state and I don't see it coming any time soon.

I will keep cheering for you though. Keep up the good work.

I hope it helps. Keep talking if it does.

And since it sounds like you've made the choice to homeschool, be sure you remember that the first year--especially starting mid-year--is a MAJOR learning experience for the parent far more than it is for the child. I strongly recommend having a "I have a lot to figure out because I've never done this before, so you will have to be just as patient with me as I am with you; this will only work if we're in it together" talk with your son. It does so much to set the right tone for a cooperative homeschooling venture.

I also talk a lot about my son being responsible for his own learning. If he wants to study something, that's up to him. I never accept "I'm bored with this." Never. If he's bored with what we're doing it's up to him to come up with a better idea. Then I find the resources.

I refuse to entertain him, but I do what I can to help him motivate himself.

I think that might also be relevant to your concerns about his getting his way. If he has MORE responsibility for his education, not less, he isn't getting his way. It's a step forward, not backward, I think.

Whether you home school or not, make sure you address the social issues that seem to be popping up. If your son doesn't relate to kids his age, that may be because he just is "beyond" them, but it may also be because he has issues in this area. Keep an eye on it and help him work on it.

Given your post, my main concern is that he views the other kids at school as beneath him - that may be a self-protecting mechanism because it is hard for him to relate, and may resolve once he finds himself in a happier place for learning, but you don't want to let that go unaddressed if you can. Most gifted kids are highly compassionate and patient with others, but the ones I know who are arrogant (not saying yours is at all, I actually think he is just sad right now) are really and truly intolerable. It is really our job to help them engage with the world in a balanced way.

Cat

I'd say fix the academics first. A child who finds schoolwork intolerable often has social problems. Unhappy kids do not make good friends, and a child who has never been challenged is often haughty.

If the academics are close to right and there are still social problems, then I think you figure there's something else going on.

Good point about the lack of challenge. My DS had a friend who was very bright and very arrogant (and rude to adults, something I can't abide). Yet he became a much more pleasant guest once I beat him in a game

Cat

Interesting thoughts. My son is never rude or disrespectful to us or other adults. He is only this way at school. Or maybe, he knows better than to do it when we are around. No, I take that back. He's not rude even when we are not around.

He is very compassionate, but becomes agitated with others quickly. He has a low tolerance for other children who he finds annoying. The sad part is, the annoying children are just doing the stuff, kids do. Right or wrong, it's what kids do. They like to annoy. His bother is really good at it.

I like the part of him being responsible for his own learning.

This Miraca Gross article comes to mind:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/underserved.htm

It says, "Hollingworth, in her landmark work on children of IQ 180+, warned that extremely gifted children must learn to accept that the majority of people they will encounter in life are very different from themselves. "The highly intelligent child must learn to suffer fools gladly-not sneeringly, not angrily, not despairingly, not weepingly-but gladly if personal development is to proceed successfully in the world as it is" (Hollingworth, 1942, p. 299).

No matter how appropriate the interventions that are made for extremely gifted students in school, they will live as adults in a world where the vast majority of people they encounter will find it difficult to relate to their remarkable intellectual capacities, atypical interests, and different values and perceptions. This does not mean, however, that our schools can absolve themselves from the obligation to assist the extremely gifted child in forming facilitative peer relationships in school. A child who receives affection and approval from other children is learning and practicing the skills that will assist her to form sound relationships in adulthood. A child who is ostracized by his peers has little opportunity to practice these skills."

Opps Cat - over the line here! Or do you have references for above?
Your main idea that we MUST get help for these 'at risk' children is totally right on, though.

Some gifted kids are highly compasssionate, but there is no evidence that 'Most' are, or that this is a hallmark of giftedness. It is a common myth though.
http://positivedisintegration.com/Ruf09.pdf
(especially page 10)

Lets face it - very few of us are 'easygoing.' I think 'really and truly intolerable' is somewhat eye of the beholder, and I haven't seen that.

What I have seen are children, usually boys, who happen to have the type of personality where they are very sensitive to being 'disrespected.' If they are surrounded by work and expectations that are too far below their 'readiness level' then they experience their worlds as shaming places.

Before my son was born, I didn't pay much attention to the difference between guilt and shame. In listening to an audiolecture about 'The Illid' I heard that in that culture, a Man's Reputation was based entirely on what other's thought and said about him, so that to strip Achilles of his 'war prize' diminished him personally. The fact that he knew that he was a mighty warrior didn't mean a thing in that cultural time and place. There was no 'heaven' that good people went to - there was only reputation, standing in the other men's eyes. (who knows what the women were thinking?) Shame was defined as the experience of being tarnished in other people's eyes. Guilt was our internal knowlege that we as individuals have 'missed the mark.'

This blew my mind, because it fit all these odd data points that I hadn't been able to make sence of. My son, at age 5-8, couldn't really be expected to function like a self-actualized adult at all moments, able to generate his own sense of his internal worth without any positive feedback from the school environment. That's why the first social reports from first grade were 'Bob is the fastest runner, Jim is the strongest, Billy is the funniest, John knows the most bad songs, I read the fastest, except for a girl, and girls don't count.'

So I do think that being 'held back' by being placed with agemates is percieved as shaming if the 'readiness level' gap is large enough, and if the child is predisposed by their personality to think in this way. So children will internalize their unhappiness. Some will act out. I am so grateful that my son's tendency was to act out, becuase that's what was needed to get him into a better fit situation. But it was painful and embarrassing (wink)

Love and More Love,
Grinity

To be honest, I've only ever once found a school counselor who did 'understand' and she was instrumental in getting my son his gradeskip.

I think in this case that 'his parents' are the right person that he needs to communicate his feelings too. It is so hard to really 'take in' what it must feel like to spend 6 hours a day 'being good' while the other kids are learning to work hard, with people you don't respect, who don't see or like you. I'm not saying that he isn't able to 'put this aside' from time to time, but it never goes away until the child gets into a learning situation where they are busy learning to learn.

My son used to bristle at the other children 'ignoring him.' I think it was a combination of them not really wanting to match him in his level of intensity of interest, and them not being able to. For weeks he complained about a little girl in daycare who 'wouldn't' talk to him. They were 3. I asked about it, and the teachers explained that she was shy and didn't talk at all except at home to her parents. I think that when keen observation is coupled with lack of experience, misunderstandings are bound to occur.

As for you son being less mature than others his age, I beg you to consider that he has lots more to handle than others his age. If a 7 year old was suddenly asked to care for younger sibs, cook dinner, and keep the house clean,(and I know that some of you did this) it would be visible and understandable if they didn't measure up to the expected standard. Maybe dinner would be peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every night. I really think that a highly sensitive gifted child in a poor fit classroom, who feels unliked and unseen on a daily basis, and isn't learning, faces a similarly adult-sized task of keepinging their emotions 'on hold' during the school day.

I will say that in some ways, classrooms designed for older kids are less stressful for the highly gifted child than age designed classrooms, in that people expect middle school aged children to have opinions and preferences. People also expect a certian level of crankiness due to 'puberty' - personally, I've observed that the expectations have gotten easier as the years go by. 'Blind obedience' isn't nearly as large on the teaching agenda as one gets older.

((hugs))
Grinity

I am wrestling with the homeschool issue as well for many of the same reasons. I dont want him to think that he does not have to follow the rules of school/society. On the other hand Kriston I hear what you are saying and this keeps me seriously thinking of homeschooling. My worry is that financially I may not always be able to homeschool and will he adapt back into school or will he be less able to handle being back? The other very big issue is that DD7 is in a perfect school situation, great teacher, appropriately challenging and she is very adept socially BUT she will go crazy if her brother gets to homeschool and not her. I honestly feel that she is better off for now where she is but my two seem so jealous of each other.

Here as well. The irony is that what he finds annoying in others is what they find annoying in him but he seems to overlook that part! :-)

Just because DS acts like he can't read other's emotions, doesn't mean that he isn't reading them. Reading them, wishing he could make the other person happy, knowing that he would have to erase too much of himself to do so, and decieding to behave as if he doesn't notice other people's feelings.

I do know that as they get older, they are more mature, more able to deal with frustration, more flexable (if you've been working at it) more able to handle challenges - at least until puberty hits.

I say: met their needs today, and try to build bridges to the skills he would need to return to school if he should ever have to, but trust that when the future arrives, you will figure out some way to deal with it.

Grinity

This is a very big issue. Are you sure that you can't bribe her to at least finish out the year? (horseback riding lessons?)

It is perfectly ok to tell her 'NO, you go to school, he homeschools, you don't have to like it, but Mom knows best.' She might be stronger than you think...

OTOH, can you get appropriate accomidations for your son? Are subject or full grade acceleration(s) possible? Is an alternate school possible?

That's a tough one!
Grinity

We homeschool now, and this is a real issue for us with the economy where it is and DH bringing home a healthy salary that might change if he had to find a new job. I like to think that every year we can do it, is a year closer to jr. high or high school where there are more options in our area. It's definitely a year to year proposition for us at this point.


This is hard. I have a 5 year old that started homeschooling this year instead of attending kindergarten. She is extroverted and very social. Kindergarten would have been mostly great for her. But last year when she went to preschool, she was bitter all year about her brother homeschooling. The previous year, she was delighted with preschool. Anyway, it's hard to know what to do. DD5 is extremely sensitive, as was I as a child. And I personally carry a lot of baggage about my own schooling! So that guided me quite a bit.

Anyway, I do think if you present it as a year to year proposition and say she has a really good fit this year that might buy you some time to try it out with one child. That's really hard! Good luck!

What about after her school day you have some special one on one with her. That can make a kid feel valued too.

Homeschoolers can keeps in touche with their old school connections by contiuing boy/girl scouts, playdates and birthday parties. It would be fun to have a summer party even if there is not a birthday.

Well, I try not to get too far ahead of myself. I think that I have to find the best fit for *now*, and then in a year or two or 10 I'll figure out the best fit for then, depending on the circumstances.

Who knows? You could win the lottery next year and never have to worry about money again! You can't predict the future.

Homeschooling is not the best fit for every family or even every child. There's so much that goes into that sort of choice! But it seems a shame to me to choose not to homeschool a child whom you think could use it because of a "what-if." I take it one year at a time--at most!--and try to make it work for that year. We re-evaluate every year.

As for the sibling rivalry: that's tougher, I think. I firmly believe that the education choices you make HAVE to fit into the family's needs overall. If the perfect school is a 3-hour commute each day, it's probably not the perfect school. If there's a school that is wonderful, but you have to live in poverty to afford it, it may not be a good choice for your family. Big picture!

So if homeschooling your son would make your daughter miserable, and there's nothing that would fix that, then maybe it's not a workable solution for you. I think it's okay to decide that family unity matters. But maybe talking with your daughter about why she'd want to leave an ideal school situation just because of her brother would solve the problem. Maybe she'd be more understanding than you think she would, especially if she got plenty of mom-time with you as onthegomom suggested to make it more palatable for her.

I am biased. We have one kid at home and one at public school right now, so I regularly push the "Different kids have different needs and we serve those needs in different ways" philosophy to my kids. "Fair" doesn't equal "the same." It is okay to make that clear to her. We talk about that a LOT around our house!

IMHO, it seems problematic not to give her brother what he needs because she doesn't like it... that does seem to me to border on letting the child run the show--just the other child. Or maybe you homeschool both, perfect school fit or no. Sometimes you give a kid what she wants and let her see that it isn't what she thought. Many ways to approach it...

Regardless of what you decide, family dynamics are complicated. I think you're right to keep them in mind as you look at the big picture.

"Most gifted kids are highly compassionate and patient with others, but the ones I know who are arrogant (not saying yours is at all, I actually think he is just sad right now) are really and truly intolerable. It is really our job to help them engage with the world in a balanced way.
"Cat


Opps Cat - over the line here! Or do you have references for above?"
__________________________________

Hi Grinity,

First, thanks for your amazing post - I need to spend some time thinking on the shame vs. guilt issue, and I think you got to the core of what I was trying (rather inelegantly) to say, which was simply, that in this case, I think a school change will make a world of difference, but if it doesn't resolve some of the issues, particularly the social issues, then I think it is important to try to help in that area. In particular, I was thinking that for a child who may have difficulty reading other's emotions (including intellectual peers and chronological peers), it might be helpful to have some assessment done, since that could indicate some other issues.

As for references re: the above, I was thinking about this at the time: http://www.sengifted.org/articles_s...tInGiftedChildrenMoralSensitivity.shtml. I didn't realize it was considered a myth, so I will definitely look at the Ruf article, I am the first to admit I have a lot to learn in this area (even about my own son - which by the way, thanky you for your post). And I will admit that I may be very incorrect in connecting patience with compassion - to me they are related, but I can definitely see how that is purely based on my own experiences (which may not be all that helpful on this forum anyway, since my experience tends to be with family and friends who are probably in the HG area, but likely not hitting IQ's of 160 or not PG, which is no doubt an entirely different thing).

I too keep thinking about homeschooling, and if you had asked me 3 months ago what I thought of homeschoolers, I would have had some very very serious concerns.

Cat

Kriston- Funny... we've been having the "fair does not equal the same" conversation with DS's school. "Appropriate does not equal the same" either...


Cat-
Your comment about patience vs. compassion really jumped out at me. My DS(6 1/2) is extremely compassionate with those he believes genuinely need it. He will show my 2 year old niece the same thing 10 times without frustration. He was a play therapy buddy for a neighbor's autistic daughter for two years, not once losing his cool. He has a deep understanding of those who are younger or less capable.

However he has no patience at all! He doesn't understand why adults underestimate him- even those who have been proven wrong repeatedly. He will absolutely not repeat himself to an adult who should have been listening, gets agitated with classmates for poor behavior (not academics, just behavior), is very sensitive to classmates teasing others and will not leave it alone.

I've divided these into my head in two very different categories having see how it plays out in his head.

Thanks Grinity, you are right! We had a very educational and thoughtful conversation this morning. He opened up with all his thoughts, feelings, and expectations. I learned his views and struggles with school. Homeschooling is the best option for him.

Talking to him today was like talking to a small adult. He amazes me some times. It's not all the time, but I think he needs more opportunities to express himself in this fashion. I need to pay more attention and give him those opportunities.

I asked if likes to play with children his age, older, or younger. His reply was, "I like to play with younger children, they respect me and they don't ignore me. Even older children some times ignore me when I talk to them."

I received a phone call on Friday from his teacher. Unfortunately, I was in the middle of doing a video interview and couldn't pick up the phone. I called the teacher back when I was done, but I had missed her. The message she left was, "DS had a great day at school today." He had DS with her when she made the call.

That evening I asked DS why was today so great, what happened to make it such a great day? He couldn't figure it out. He had lost recess because he didn't finish one of his centers. I wish the school would let me know what they are trying to do, before they do it. Was it a motivational tool, was it because they know I want to home school?? I have a suspicious mind.

I am so happy for you Tall boys in feeling confidant that homeschooling is the right choice. I believe I am 90% there and most of the hesitation has to do with the child who IS in a great school placement.

When will you start?

I'm glad you had a good talk, Tall Boys. I think kids know a lot of the time what is right for them. We just have to know what questions to ask and how to listen.

Hang in there!

Breakaway4, I'm sending in my letter of intent to the superintendent on Monday. Friday will be his last day of school.

As for your daughter, would she be happy if you homeschooled her after school or on weekends?? Maybe start out with her picking her favorite topic and expanding her knowledge on it. Letting her take the ball and run with it.

I'm caught in the middle with my DS8. He wants me to home school him, but he is doing great in public school. Plus, we are so much alike it could create conflict between us. I may wait with him till next year, but home school him on weekends for this year. I feel he will be happy with this arrangement. Fingers crossed.

Today I pick up a couple of workbooks for DS7. Just something to start with. I was shocked how much my confidence level went up by having academic materials in my hand. All the sudden I'm not as scared as I was before. I have direction!

Kriston, you correct!

Some times life gets in the way. I need to slow down and listen closer, to the ones that mean the most.

Thank you!!

Tall Boys - I came across two neat looking math web sites today. DS8 is doing EPGY but I actually think these sites have more a more stimulating presentation. Also the IXL site shows you the link between your states standards for each grade and the lessons they present.

First site is www.mathisfun and the second is

I highly recommend asking your son what he would like to learn about and then hitting the library for books on those topics. Especially the first year, it's nice to 1) get the child involved in the planning, since that makes it much more of a team enterprise, and 2) it's free and gives you time to get your sea-legs with homeschooling.

Until you see what he's really capable of doing, you'll probably buy the wrong things. I did! But you can cover a lot of ground for free with library books, and it lets you see what he can do.

Thanks for the article. Weirdly, my son in particular has a super developed sense of justice that gets him acting impatient and stubborn instead of acting emphatic. In elementary school, he'd get on his high horse, decide something was dangerous, (like allowing small children to play 'snake' with the computer's electric cord,) make a big fuss out of concern for safety, start yelling, and end up in the principal's office.

I called 'foul' because there is a world of difference between 'many' and 'most.' I love reading Lovecky's work, and she could be talking about so many people I know, but that still doesn't make a 'most.' I think that this is a subset of 'gifted doesn't mean gifted across the board' Emotional Intelligence is like Math in that way - some gifted kids are great in Math, and some other aren't. Same with Spelling

LOL! ((eyeroll))HG is plenty intelligent for this pond! I think your experience is going to continue to be valuable here dear, I, personally identify as 'Low HG overall, with a PG spike in 'reading between the lines.' I will call foul when I see one, though, and I wish you had been there when I joined the Davidson lists 5 years ago. I was used to speaking very imprecisely, because everyone else in my real life would always 'smile and nod' when I spoke anyway. It took me a few 'fouls' to get the hang of the idea that people were actually reading 'exactly' what I was saying. I wouldn't have embarrassed you publically, except for all the Parents of gifted kids who just aren't like that. Just like if you had said: 'Most profoundly gifted kids learn to read before age 3.' KWIM?

This open mindedness is exactly what I love and value about this community, and I hope you keep posting your experiences and what you are reading and what you are speculating - just signpost for us, OK? To me, when I'm walking around with egg on my face - that means I'm really living!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

My son is the exact same way.


Breakaway4, Thanks you for the links! My sons are going to have a blast with them.

Kriston, my son wants to learn more about Saturn and Jupiter. I told him, we will go to library and get more books on the planets. He said, "Wait mom! I want to reread the books I have before we get more advanced books." He was very excited about more books, but he want to make sure he refreshed his memory before getting new books. FUNNY!

Love the library book quote!
Does anyone else see the irony in teachers complaining to me that my son is yelling and acting bossy in a situation where they are allowing 5 year olds to 'play snake' with the electric cord of the computer?

File this one under: 'Don't know wether to laught or cry!
Grinity

Indeed! LOL! I'm mostly just glad to hear that he's excited about getting to learn. That always warms my heart for a GT kid.