Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Blah (oh, just venting AGAIN)

We had another meeting yesterday with DS7's school - it felt like talking to a brick wall.

The classroom teacher just will not budge from the position she had at the beginning of the year - she has lots of very gifted children in her class, and they are all being appropriately extended. DS7 is not more gifted than they are, or he would be doing better work. For example...the whole class was given a wonderful open-ended creative writing exercise in which they had the opportunity to imagine what they might do if they were Jack, and the beanstalk didn't quite reach the land of the giant. And all my not-very-gifted child came up with was "wait for the beanstalk to grow". I thought this was quite a funny answer, because I wouldn't care either. (Aha!!- the bad attitude must be inherited!) BLEURRGGGH.

And then there was the guidance officer, who was just so very concerned about his emotional well-being if he was accelerated. I asked her if she'd read any of the research about this, and she hasn't read anything.

It turned out, too, that he's working three years above grade level for maths. It's the end of the year - isn't it reasonable to expect that someone would have told us before now? Perhaps they were afraid it would only encourage us.

I'm planning to send a follow-up email re statistical probability and with links to info on acceleration and gifted underachievement. I'll wait a day or two though - am sometimes less than completely tactful when I'm this frustrated.

Does anyone else relish the occasional secret vengeful fantasy?

Oh, you betcha! We have a meeting on Dec. 1st with the middle school for options for next year. I am not looking forward to it.

I'm with your DS, I'd wait for it to grow too...

I feel for you as I remember ds at 7 in elementary school. I know it is not easy!

Ha ha, I love that answer too! I'd say that is pretty creative.

That's a great answer! Almost as good as Calvin's "yakka foob mog chumble spuzz" when asked to explain something "in his own words" (Calvin & Hobbes is great stuff for gifted kids, by the way). You and your son would probably enjoy the oft-forwarded "barometer legend": http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp.

To me as a teacher, the great thing about your son's answer is that it shows an ability to internalize knowledge and use it in a creative way. Most children your son's age won't think about the nature of plants in a writing assignment, but the first thing that came to his mind was "plants grow over time". That means he's absorbed this bit of scientific information into his thought processes, rather than just "remembering" it as most kids would, and he can now apply it to whatever he does. That's important.

Can I ask whether you've considered moving your son to another school? Obviously how easy this is varies with your situation. But I have to say it sounds like those people aren't going to give him what he needs.

And if that classroom teacher really thinks she has "lots of really gifted kids" in her class, she's an idiot. Gifted means rare. Those kids who are doing so well on all her assignments are doing that well because, intentionally or not, she's teaching to the bottom of the class.

It sounds as though the teacher and counselor are working from a guide book that has every incorrect cliche out there. Good luck in you advocacy.

I was curious what my son would come up with when I asked him about being Jack in the situation the teacher gave. He answered that he would plant seeds at the top of the stalk and try to grow another one on top of the first. I guess he is equally not-very-gifted!

Hehe, this post prompted me to ask mine; he said he would climb up there and find out why it stopped growing, "maybe something was in its way" he said. LOL! Three different kids with such different answers, why on earth would the teachers not be prepared for a lot of unique responses?

Hmm...DS7 said he would jump! And I asked what if it wasn't that close, and he said he would just get another bean that would be taller and plant it.

What on earth are they looking for in these answers, anyway? I can't think of anything better myself.

I asked my DS7 - he said that he would plant another bean to see if it grew taller than the previous one, if not he would cut the second beanstalk and use it to extend the first one!

Me personally...all the re-planting sounds like hard work! I would stick with your DS BKD and "wait for the beanstalk to grow"...

Sorry for your dilemma BKD. That is so frustrating. I'm pretty sure Gifties are like snowflakes, even if you are in the middle of a snowstorm you won't find two alike (My kids are busy decorating the house with snowflakes hence the analogy). So I agree the teacher's reply that she has a bunch is a really naive one or you are sitting on a gold mine with a ton of gifties in one place. R u?

Anyways, I love the question so I asked DS7 also. He said he would jump too. And if he couldn't make it, he would go back down and water the beanstalk until it grew tall enough.

I like this. Reminds me of one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes...es...what's the plural of Calvin and Hobbes? Anyway, Calvin's doing show and tell and says to everyone, "I've brought a tiny marvel of nature: a snowflake. I think we might all learn a lesson from how this utterly unique and exquisite crystal turns into an ordinary, boring molecule of water, just like every other one, when you bring it in the classroom. And now, while the analogy sinks in, I'll be leaving you drips and going outside."

Thanks for the link Dottie - that is going on my fridge!

This and some of Calvin's other wonderful observations about school sometimes find their way onto the walls of my classroom. Makes for interesting reactions from the other teachers.

Ok, I had to print that out and put it on my fridge before I could even take a moment to reply to this thread.

I think a Calvin and Hobbes book is in order this holiday season.

Now to the question regarding the beanstalk....I asked DD4 to imagine that she were Jack and the beanstalk was too short. I prompted her with...what would you do to finish the story? She responded without hesitation..."I would jump" I too asked what if it was too far to the Giant's home in the clouds, and her response was, "so what, giant beanstalks, giants, and homes in the clouds are not real, so in my story jumping would just work".

I did not think there could be a wrong answer, so what exactly was the teacher looking for?

LOL - DH printed that out too. So there's DS5 innocently colouring it in, with a view to taking it to school for show and tell. Thank heavens I was still here to veto the idea! If I'd left for work five minutes earlier we could have had a complete disaster in us-school relations.

So hard to know... My impression was that a proper gifted child would become very absorbed in the task at hand and produce a complex creative work oozing with good spelling (no danger of that here - imagine dogmatically phoenetic spelling based on the worst possible sort of Australian accent - why would a person write "now" when they could write "nyeow"? Mysteriously, he doesn't talk that way).

Zhian - you must be a very spicy teacher. I hope you're more appreciated than looked at askance?

Back in January, I was fired for trying to help enthusiastic students succeed in a failing school (mostly because the headmistress wasn't interested in anyone admitting there were problems in the place, despite the 18% "acceptable" rate on exams). Tell you enough? But I'm undeterred. And in a couple years I'll have my masters in G&T and hopefully be in a position to fight back a little more effectively against the Vogons who run the whole setup.

"In my story, jumping would just work." I LOVE IT!! That's showing an understanding of fantasy that few four-year-olds have. Much more important than writing X number of words about how to get to a place where there's an angry giant waiting for you.

Actually, I'm waiting to hear about the kid who says "I'd give up, go home, and trade the beans back 'cause they're obviously defective."

By the way, I LOVE that your daughter almost took that C&H strip into school. Would've been almost as good as the day I was subbing at a Catholic school and accidentally converted a kid to agnosticism.

Thank you Zhian! Your C&H strip is hanging now and my son is just waiting for the teacher to say 'in you own words'. He had a very evil Calvin look about him. LOL! Actually, Calvin is how we found out he could read. I found the little guy laughing hysterically in his room. They've been favorites for years!

This is almost the same answer I got from DS8. He said he would jump and when I asked what if it was still too high he said since it was a fairy tale he would sprinkle fairy dust on the beanstalk until it was high enough.

This reminds me of my DS then 6 in second grade doing what they call functional reading - reading directions, signs, menus etc.

They were give this ad that said

Purple bike for sale.
Like new condition.
If interested call Sally at 555-5555.

Then the questions went something like this

1. Was this a girl's or a boys bike? DS answer - could be a boys or a girl's bike. Both like purple. - WRONG answer
Girls bike because you have to call Sally - DS replied that Sally would probably be the mom since kids don't handle their own bike sales all the time. STILL WRONG

2. How could you find out more information about this bike? DS answer - Take it for a test ride. WRONG - call Sally DS replied - Sally might lie since she wants to sell her bike, I would rather test ride it. STILL WRONG

The teacher actually used these examples to show me how he was NOT gifted. Not to say these are brilliant answers but they show that he did read the ad and did think about the answers he just hadn't learned the trick yet of knowing the "expected" answer.

BTW - I adore C and H! That and the Far Side.

I asked ds6 the beanstalk queston - he said he would climb back down. What answer DID the teacher want ??

I love the cartoon, it will be on my fridge too.

My DD6 said she'd plant another bean...

That teacher probably wouldn't appreciate the example Renzulli gave in his book Light Up Your Child's Mind about creative but unexpected answers. When asked what's half of 8, the child replied 3 - if you erase the left side of the number 8, you get a 3!

My DS6 says he'd fertilise it. How many different answers can we collect?!

LOL - my 5 year old said she'd go down, and scrap the whole thing. She wouldn't want to visit a giant anyway. My 9 year old rolled his eyes and said "This is one of those imagination tests, isn't it. How lame." And refused to answer. Your teacher would love my kids too, no doubt. We got the same kind of thing from our 1st grade teacher and our son because he wouldn't jump through her hoops.

Oh to cute, my DS4 decided he'd pray for more sunlight.

It is so interesting reading the variety of responses - maybe we should start a "beanstalk thread"!

When I was 13, a universally hated math teacher assigned the classic "enlarge an image using a grid" project. I blew up a Far Side cartoon of a kid telling his teacher "Don't worry, if I'm not smart enough to get a good job, I can always teach!" to poster size. The teacher then of course had to hang it on his wall with the other kids' work. Somehow I didn't get in trouble...I think he was just amazed I had the guts. Ironic, of course, that I ended up a teacher!

Tiz, I think this is already the beanstalk thread. Or the beanstalk-and-Calvin's-snowflake thread. Wonder if we can rename it....

I love the "in your own words" strip too, by the way! "Grug puppawup zink wattoom gazork. Chumble spuzz." CLASSIC!

This just had a room of three adults gaping like fish at the stupidity of the teacher. In fact several minutes later my husband is still stunned that the teacher said your son's answers were wrong since they were probably better than what he was 'supposed' to answer. I personally was rolling on the floor at their reactions.

ETA: He was STILL amazed by it and commenting on it around a half an hour later...

The teacher said they would be incorrect on the MCAS (state tests) and simply showed his immaturity. Luckily we changed schools soon after. Unfortunately we have another teacher (now 4th grade) who has a similar attitude.

I think we need to set up a foundation to provide financial aid to people for homeschooling. :-)

I asked DS 5.5, he said "I would jump", i said "what if it was too far to jump?" He said "i would grow a new one, or get the sun to shine on it, or water it, or put it on a box(?!?)" DDnearly3 said "i would fly up"

IMO there should be no correct answer.

Just last night DS mentioned "Kafka dreams" because he was mad that I wouldn't hang out and chat with him all night.

Calvin and Hobbes is big in our house.

As a teacher of the other end of the spectrum and a parent on this end there is a reason for that whole 2 standard deviation thing. Our kids aren't supposed to answer like the rest. They work their own paradigm just like my low functioning students do. There's a little word called diffentiated instruction, works as well for the high end as the low.

How could they use something like this on a state test?!? I mean what are the kids SUPPOSED to answer??? LOL

Sorry you are stuck with another teacher like that.

ETA: Wolf (5) said he'd get a ladder and Bear (2.8) parroted him...

Wolf and Bear? Okay, those are awesome names.

And they can absolutely use that on a state test. The objective of state tests, after all, is to guage students' ability to give expected, unoriginal answers.

Can someone recommend a good Calvin and Hobbes for DS9 for Christmas?

Thanks,
Dazey

they are all good. I would suggest you buy one your library system doesn't carry. Here's one we liked

The Calvin and Hobbes tenth anniversary book / by Bill Watterson

I'd suggest one of the earlier square-shaped books; the later ones were giant and rectangular (maybe 16x10 inches) and I remember finding them difficult to hold when I was a kid. "Scientific Progress Goes Boink" includes a couple of my favorite series.

Thanks! Online we are Wyldkat, Wolf, Bear and Dragon. LOL I got tired of typing DS5 and remembered the people who identified their kids in some other way, so this is what happened!

But, I just can't see how any group of children is going to give similar answers to a question like this. How can it be used when the possible answers are endless?

Oh, that's disappointing, I thought those were their REAL names. Would be very Alaskan (I taught up there for a semester and we did have a kid in the school called Wolf - short for Wolfgang - and a family with the last name Bear).

Sorry to disappoint. I would have gone with Sylvan or possibly Raven, but it didn't work out that way!

Although Bear is actually called that more than his actual name and responds to it just as well if not better...