Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments EPGY Math vs. ALEKS and/or CA Math Curriculum?

My DD used ALEKS into level 6 and is now using EPGY. She did not retain as well in the end with ALEKS. She filled her pie and passed all the assessments but I don't think it truely stuck. She needs the actual "teaching" versus examples as she gets higher into math. Then again, she is good at, but doesn't "love" math either.

If he did that well on the end of year assessment I would just look at materials that might be different. It took my DD about 20 hours (rough estimate here) to complete a level of EPGY. That's a lot of repetition if he knows the material well.

Dandy- would you mind sharing how you were able to get his own Math into the school? Did you reccomend that he did this and they knew it was best because he had the right test scores? Did you suggest the Math programs like Alex or did they? Did they have any concerns about developmental issues and accelloration? This is my school's issue.

My DS used Aleks for 3 and 4 and never did more than the minimum number of questions, which means he just whipped through it (not happily, of course - he prefers some audiovisual elements, too). Still, I think it was math light. He learned how to do things, but I can't really say it made a lasting impression. Also, there is little to no problem-solving. No sure what there is on EPGY, as I don't recall from the 3rd grade program.

btw, my DS absolutely hated math after EPGY3. Thought it was excrutiatingly boring. Funny thing is that he now likes EPGY5. A surprise to me - but it's probably b/c it's been things other than straight + and - calculations, and the fact that "Mr. EPGY" now says things like "awesome" and a little tune plays. lol.

So, Questions and Melmichigan,

Your impression was that Aleks doesn't cover the material as well as might be needed, or that there wasn't enough review? I looked at it briefly, but have no experience.

The bottom line is that because the school had no familiarity with the program, I had to show that ALEKS "worked" for our son by doing it at home first, and the fact that he tested so well on the 4th grade math made them willing to try.

We hadn't received any formal test results back, so the decision was based purely on his actual performance.

Their decision was certainly helped along by my promise to handle everything including payment, system configuration, quizzes and homework generation. They didn't have to do anything except say "yes."

After the IQ & Achievement test results came back, it was the district office that made the decision to make EPGY available to him for whatever we wanted.

When you did Alex did he work at 4h Grade level at home while in 4th Grade? How long did you do this so they felt comfortable he could do the program? Did you generate Reports from Alex and present them to the school?

Does alex have anything out of the box of traditional schooling like Math logic or puzzles?

It's hard to tell. He definitely learned it - and his SCAT score went up about 35 points b/n 2nd and 3rd grade spring. Maybe with more repetition he would have become faster, but then again, he'd tolerate the program less. I just wonder how much he got out of a program that took less than 2 mos. for 4th grade, when he didn't work on it everyday. Then again, there is so much repetition b/n grades - all elementary curriculum seems to spiral. After third grade, he placed into about 4.5, after 4th grade, he placed into 5.6+. Also, he did no math over the summer, and this fall he couldn't exactly remember how to multiply large numbers (3 digit by 4 digit or whatever). Now, we're doing an assortment of everything, as it's very hard to switch b/n math curricula as they teach in different orders and different subjects in different grades.

Also, for whomever asked the question, we're homeschooling. He was in public school for second grade, and since he knew most everything they were teaching, I had him do EPGY3 and Elementary Problem Solving I through CTY b/c I didn't want him just sitting there. But the acceleration (which was really only picking up where his previous private school had left off in first grade) created more problems for him in the classroom.

It's never easy, is it?

fyi, our public school allows the kids in 4th and 5th to work on Aleks in the classroom once they demonstrate that they know the topic being taught that week. They do in-class differentiation. As it was explained to me during our tour last spring as we considered our options for this year, if DS already knows long division, he'd be expected to listen to the instruction as to how to do it, but wouldn't need to work the same problems the class was using. He'd be given other more interesting/difficult problems that would involve long division, and then would be given Aleks time - or something like that. Our district has no gifted services other than in-class differentiation until 6th grade honors math.

I just mention that b/c I wonder what other options there are other than acceleration in schools which won't accommodate the advanced and/or gifted kids. It really was a tough decision for us - let him sit there and be miserable, or let him move forward and be miserable...

And I don't recall any (math) logic or puzzles in Aleks.

He completed the ALEKS 4th Grade level during July '09, the month before the start of school.

I didn't bother with any of the reports, other than to share a "for teachers" page with them describing the alignment with state curriculum. (Which I don't think was ever read.)

Because ALEKS allows the student to work in a largely self-directed fashion, I think it would be difficult for the student to take any test showing grade level competency until the course is essentially finished.

Our son's progress didn't follow the school's text book at all, as he was effectively tackling parts of multiple chapters at the same time.

Unless the school has some meaningful familiarity with ALEKS -- or is willing to do the research on its own -- convincing the school to permit in-class replacement would be a tough challenge.

If I had done this mid-year, I would have had DS complete the course on his own, after school, and then request that he be permitted to take the end-of-year test for the school to demonstrate mastery of their curriculum.

Then, if he tested high enough, I would request that he be allowed to take the next level in ALEKS as an in-class replacement.

Do not, however, allow him to take their test until you've personally reviewed their curriculum to make sure ALEKS covered everything. I found a handful of differences where he would have been tripped up by terminology. I also had him review some earlier math concepts that his school covered in 4th, but ALEKS didn't. (One example is that ALEKS doesn't discuss "outliers" [in reference to Mean v. Median] until 5th, while the school addressed the concept in 4th.)

In the end, though, requiring 30+ minutes/day from my son -- on top of regular school work -- would have been less than pleasurable for him, so taking this mid-year approach would not have been as easy as an over-the-summer effort.