Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments EPGY Math vs. ALEKS and/or CA Math Curriculum?

Some background:
So far this year, our son finished 4th & 5th grade math using ALEKS, followed by passing the school's own end-of-year tests for each grade (90% and 97% respectively) to satisfy the district math requirements.

He was scheduled to begin the 6th grade math curriculum through EPGY on Dec 1, but because of the lag time, he started with the ALEKS program for 6th to keep himself busy during class. (His school allows him to do his math on-line during the normal math time for his class.)

He scored an 85% on the 6th grade initial assessment for ALEKS, worked for a couple of weeks to finish the remaining topics, and then scored 94% on the school's end-of-year test for 6th.

My question:
Is EPGY different enough from CA standards (and/or ALEKS) that he would truly benefit by re-taking 6th grade w/EPGY, or would he be fine starting out with Pre-algebra w/EPGY instead?

This is partly financial, in that I don't want to pay for the full 5th/6th grade EPGY course to maybe give him the benefit of just a fraction of the second half of that course, but I also don't want to put my son through the drudgery of the 6th grade EPGY curriculum if it is largely the same as ALEKS.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Why would you pay for the individual program rather than use the Open Enrollment Group? Then you could have access up to prealgebra for $135, and if needed you could add Intro to Algebra for $50 if needed between now and May 2010. Unless it is a requirement of the school? You will still have access to his reports you just wouldn't get a certificate of completion, just the material you can print for your records. Then it wouldn't be an financial issue.

I think there are a few things covered in EPGY 5th/6th that aren't covered in ALEKS, at least from my DD's experience, she did ALEKS as well before EPGY, whether they are necessary I can't say, we are just starting prealgebra now.

This is going through his school and although they are paying for it, I do not want to waste their money (ultimately mine, right?) on a fraction of a course.

The school is requiring that we use the tutor-ized version and will be using the results from whatever tests/quizzes/homework are generated for DS's grades.

I really know spit about EPGY (can you tell?) so all this may change once we finally get our feet wet.

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this.

If that's the case I would probably pull the scope and sequence and compare them to see what would be missing. That way you might be able to easily cover whatever material is missing on your own.

You would think it would be cheaper for the school to access the open enrollment program themselves, jeez they could do it for more than a dozen kids and still save money over the individual program. But hey, I'm just a lowely parent.

I suggested to our school GT coordinator that dd#2's school consider using the open enrollment program too b/c they have a few kids using it for math in school (parents pay). She didn't think that they would be interested despite the savings b/c it doesn't have the tutor thing. My guess would be that the tutor aspect serves like the available parent -- to answer questions -- and that the school doesn't want to make someone available to fill that role at school.

It would be my guess also that schools don't want to have to provide a tutor for the program. If the parents are paying for the traditional program, there's no responsibility on them.

Now if the school is paying for the traditional program, it would be less expensive for them to let parents pay for the open enrollment(I'm sure many would be willing), and provide the tutor.

One thing that comes to mind is that EPGY covers sets (unions, intersections, etc.) in all grades (at least from 3 on - we've used 3 and are now using 5). I agree with the above - check out the scope and sequence and compare them carefully. That said, EPGY has so many exercises and the program won't let you skip what you already know. I doubt your DS would want to repeat 80% of what he's already mastered. You might be better off having him move forward and going back to fill in the gaps.

Thanks Questions. I have the course outlines side-by-side and am trying to cross-reference. I have a call into EPGY to get a little more detail directly from them, as I recall reading discussions involving Melissa's group that the instructor has some control over the pacing.

Our son is very keen on ALEKS' approach to pacing, in that he only needs 3-in-a-row (or whatever) to move to the next item, and that as long as he continues to demonstrate understanding at assessment (as well as our own created worksheets) he doesn't have to revisit topics in any detail.

If EPGY is radically different and requires tons of repetition on stuff he already knows, I'll have to start sleeping with one eye open lest he choose to exact his revenge on me.

There are two settings. One of these days I'm going to have time to run a few lessons in both settings to see the real difference for myself.

I'll agree with Questions, unless you find that you can have the program adjusted as MelMichigan suggested, and the adjustment is significant.

You said your son is keen on Aleks' pacing of moving on after three correct answers in a row. Honestly, EPGY has a lot more repitition than that. My DD likes it generally, but it can be a bit repetitive, even when you don't miss any answers.