Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Counseling?

The temper tantrums/emotional meltdowns are escalating. Ds is melting down more frequently, often multiple times per day. In fact, some days, it's multiple times per hour! Sometimes it's related to perfectionsim and easy frustration, but now he's starting to exhibit the same behavior when he doesn't get his way, during transitions, and when he's trying to get out of something he doesn't want to do.

The worst part is that he's started hitting himself (in the head) and saying things like, "I'm always bad," "I don't even like myself," "I'm the worst kid in the world," or "I can't do anything right." He is good at manipulating (my little lawyer in the making), so I'm not sure if he's just trying to get sympathy or if he really feels this way. It's obviously concerning because I'd hate to think he really believes these negative comments.

It's a vicious cycle because he throws a tantrum, says hateful things, and then he feels bad about himself for doing it and has another meltdown because of his poor choices. There are days where he just doesn't seem to be able to get it together-it's one problem after another and constant negativity. Then there are days when everything is perfect, and I think, "Oh thank God, my sweet little guy hasn't gone anywhere!"

On a positive note, when we visit the Montessori school and other classes in the community, I don't see these behaviors. If they begin to rear their ugly head, he can reel it in quite well and pretty quickly, and we only see it when he's having difficulty with something (perfectionism for sure). He definitely doesn't act out because he's not getting his way unless he is with dh and I or my parents. I honestly do not feel that we give in to these tantrums, nor do we reinforce them in any way that I can see.

Do you think counseling would benefit him? Is this something he'll just grow out of? Is he going to grow up with a horrible self-image? It's been one of those weeks (3 days of this in a row!!!).

Thanks,
Jen

Omigosh, my daughter EXCELLED at temper tantrums at age 6! Sometimes, I was sure the condo neighbors were going to call Child Protective Services on us! She would hit walls, kick floors, bang her head on the arms of the sofa, and scream repetitively at the top of her voice.

One of her very favorite tricks was to refuse dinner and then have a meltdown at bedtime because she was hungry. She would, in temper tantrum voice, say litigous things like "you are REQUIRED to feed me as my parents. Give me food now!" Even with the threat of CPS being called, we didn't give in because we needed the three-meals structure in our lives and she was trying to manipulate us out of it. (I know other parents here might have handled this differently; I don't know if I did the right thing or not...)

She also said things like your son is saying about her own self worth. She doesn't seem to have any intensity issues at school or church.

I can't say that she has grown out of it per se, but her expression of intense emotions have matured. Now she skulks and fumes instead.

With both the tantrums and the fuming, we have used deep-breathing and other calming practices and we've also given her "time out," not so much as a punishment but just so she could cool off. Cooling off periods have been necessary for her since toddlerhood.

She goes through cycles of calm/happy and intense/moody. Her intense periods seem to coincide with growth spurts.

FWIW, my mom swears I started having PMS at age 7. :-)

We have adjusted our "normal" to fit our daughter and worked through it and haven't sought counseling. Finances and access to mental health insurance have played a role in our decision. But I think counseling could only help, if the therapist were experienced with gifted people. My own time in therapy as a young adult was very, very useful to me.

-Shannon

I don't think counseling could hurt, especially if you're lucky enough to find someone familiar with gifted kids. If your son knows enough not to throw tantrums at the school, then there must be either some deterrent there that is not present at home or some benefit at home that is not present at school. It may turn out to be that he feels safe enough at home to release the pressure valve, in which case you can work out different ways for him to achieve the same result.

I sympathize; it's hard to hear your kid talk that way.

I did ask ds6 why he thinks he is able to control his frustration at school or when he's with friends, and after thinking about it for a few minutes, he said he had two reasons:

1. When he's at school ("a non-boring school" that is) he is busy and working with others, and he doesn't have so much time where he has nothing to do. If he has down-time, he's bored and then gets upset.

2. If he acts like that in front of his friends, they might not like him anymore.

Well, thank goodness he can understand that it's not socially appropriate to act that way! And, good grief, how much more can I do to keep the little prince entertained? We are working on his independence, and he's getting better at entertaining/occupying himself. We have plenty of academic and non-academic activities, toys, and games around here, but he still wants someone with him at all times if possible. It does reinforce the fact that a consistent schedule is important for him. I need to get better about making sure we are following it closely. I'm a go-with-the-flow kind of person, so it's hard for me to keep to a schedule. I think it's more necessary for him than I realized.

BTW, great afternoon after a terrible 3 days. Go figure.

I'm considering the counseling, but I'll definitely take to heart the advice of finding a counselor with gifted experience. Thanks!

This describes my DS4. Boredom is a big No No for him and he thrives on a schedule. He doesn't have meltdowns if he is busy if he is not he is all over the place. On school days he is a perfect boy at home, on non school days we have to make sure that he is doing something constructive or creative.

Does you son like science or art? We have found that thats the best way to keep his mind occupied.

I'm sorry to hear about the tantrums. Our gifted DS7 had his share of tantrums prior to becoming a homeschooler. It seems that after we started homeschooling, we were able to "hug" and rationalize our way out most problems.

However, he wasn't the worst tantrum thrower in the family! Our worst was our DS6, who became our son at 15 months. From the day he entered our house, he threw tantrums that would last 5 hours or more. (Sadly, this is not an exaggeration.) He exhibited all the behaviors you listed, plus a few more! To solve this problem, we used more tough love. I can happily report that we rarely see these tantrums anymore.

With child #1, lots of love, encouragement and common sense seemed to work. With child #2, lots of jumping jacks, laps around the yard, deep breathing, and leg/back massage seemed to work. Neither were easy on us as parents. #1 was emotionally draining because we absorbed the pain, and #2 was emotionally draining because we had to appear aloof and seek inner resolve to make it through the consequence.

I hope you can find the right thing for your son. I can't imagine that you could go wrong, because it's obvious you care deeply!

It sounds like anxiety. "He wants someone with him at all times if possible." Throwing the tantrums accomplishes this attention in a strange sort of way.

Fortunately, if it is anxiety a predictable routine, not necessarily a schedule, can be help some. Do you have him using a calendar?

Some people can get better with counseling, some with a holistic approach, and some need medication.

We thought counseling/support for the parent was helpful. I didn't find it particularly helpful to the child; even though my child is impressively verbal, and it was considered an appropriate intervention given the circumstances despite the young age, overall it didn't help.

The child sometimes had the counselor hoodwinked with exaggeration of anything they wanted to hear more about in regards to feelings. I hate to say that they were experienced with gifted, (but I'm not so sure about the PG). In the long run it was not a good use of our resources. (But I'm sure there are parents out there found it useful or found the perfect counselor for their child.) We ended up using a few interventions, eventually trying a different route with nutritional supplements; programs that involve computer training; everyday exercise; self help books, and so on. The effect was quicker and more palpable.

For what it's worth, DS seemed to take a long time to be comfortable being alone; he was probably 5 before he could even manage to go 10 minutes without calling for one of us or coming to find us. I don't think it was an anxiety issue. I think he just prefers company and/or an audience.

One thing that really helped us a lot was getting him a CD player and several CDs with stories (Greek legends, King Arthur, etc.). He plays these over and over again, often at a low volume, which makes me think he just likes the comfort of a human voice - like white noise but with gory imagery. He can be by himself for hours now with just occasional check-ins.

As an aside, I also think the CDs - whether stories or music - keep some segment of his brain occupied, which then allows the rest of his brain to focus better on the task at hand. I wonder if it would be helpful to your DS to have music playing while he does his schoolwork.

This sounds JUST like my DD. We did try counseling 9for issues related to anxiety when she was 4) and that was WORTHLESS! Every idea they offered, I had already tried. After going 4 times and realizing I was paying each time for advice, I already tried, we went at it alone. I can tell you that I have done a LOT of reading. DD is highly intense (she is textbook Dabrowski's theory of over-excitabilities). Like your son, she only does it at home. She knows it is not socially appropriate etc. One thing, that one of my friends who has a GT child as well was told from a counselor her DD was seeing was to follow the same diet that ADHD kids are recommended to try. Basically, we monitor her sugar intake BIG TIME! I can tell you that it has REALLY changed these crazy outbursts! With Halloween just being here, she turned back to her old ways with the candy being around. So much that SHE even noticed it when I pointed it out, and asked me to get rid of it for her! I know it sounds crazy, but it's worth a shot. She was a different child within about a week of cutting her sugar WAY OUT. When she does have it when she goes to a party or what not... it's like 3 days that we know it will be out of her system (I know it doesn't take that long, but she really seems to be affected by it that long.) If you do go the route of counseling, please find someone skilled in gifted kids. I think that was part of our problem, but really, wroking it out on our own worked. We devised a series of "coping skills" for when these outbursts happened. The MAIN thing, for me, was to remain calm. I used to get so upset because she was being so irrational, that it was her strong-willed personality battling mine, that it was a no win situation. I found that speaking very calmly calmed her down. She may be angry for a short bit while I am doing it because you turn emoitions off THAT quickly, but she soon realized she could calm down too. We did deep breathes and that helped tremendously. Now, she just says.... I think I need a hug, because that was one of the things we talked about as a resolution. Never try to have a discussion when the child's emotions are flaring like that. Wait til it all calms down and then discuss it. Now, I tell her she isn't making good choices and that usually ends it with "I'm sorry... can I start over." I never thought it would work but the diet played a HUGE role in the length and frequency of these outbursts! HTH!

joys-yes, my son loves both science and art. I find science to be a difficult subject to homeschool b/c it's not my favorite! I am working on trying to find something that is interesting and fun. Mostly it bores both of us to death which tells me I'm not doing the right thing. He LOVES science, so it's not the subject matter; it's the presentation I'm sure! Any suggestions? He wants to try some of the Lego educational products, but he's also interested in chemistry.

Movingup6-How old is child #2 now? About a year and a half ago, we saw this same escalation of tantrums and major frustration. We implemented the 5 minute rule. We'd say, "5 minutes." Then for 5 minutes we would completely ignore him. At first he'd hang on our legs, scream, cry and we'd pretend he was nothing more than a fly. It was pretty funny walking around with a child on your leg and pretending he wasn't there! Pretty soon, he'd go to his room, and scream and cry. After five minutes, only if he'd calmed down, we'd go in and have a conversation. Not long after that, as soon as we'd say "5 min" he'd go straight to his room and stop screaming/crying before he even shut the dooor. Then, the tantrums stopped altogether. Now, here we are again. Dh thinks we should just begin the same "5 min" rule again.

eamsnova-Ds wants someone with him all the time, for sure! I always thought it was because he had a personal nanny who was like a grandmother from the time he was 9 mos old until he was 4. She even lived with us for a while. Not to mention, I read all the lovely attachment parenting books before I gave birth and tried to follow them to a tee. He slept with me until he was 3. He breastfed on demand (no schedule). The list goes on. Suffice it to say, I personally wouldn't recommend that method to anyone!

Also, my parents are very involved, and they and the nanny have always given him undivided attention. I just thought he never learned to be alone, and maybe that's true. But, we've been working on that for a long time, and he still struggles with it. Maybe he is feeling anxiety; is it enough to just continue to work on doing things for himself? If I get a phone call, he finds something to have a meltdown over. If I'm in the shower, same thing. Even in the car, he freaks out if I just want to listen to music and not play a game with him. He is even reluctant to make a decision for himself (perfectionism), yet he has an opinion on anything and will argue that the sky is really green until he's blue in the face. I'm exhausted trying to keep him occupied.

We do use a calendar, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not the best at following any kind of routine or schedule. I'm organized but not schedule oriented. I try to do it for him, but it's a struggle. Since we're homeschooling, we seem to have a lot of free time. That's our downfall. He can't have downtime; he doesn't know what to do with himself. Shouldn't he be able to entertain himself for a little while playing in his room or even right next to me now that he's 6?

As for the counseling, I could definitely see ds wrapping the therapist around his little finger. He's very good at saying what he thinks people want to hear. He can rationalize anything and verbalize understanding about his feelings and whether his behaviors are appropriate or inappropriate. The problem is, when he gets frustrated, all reason goes out the window and he is just a little ball of feelings. Whatever he is feeling at that moment consumes him.

I guess I just went on and on as usual! I feel like I am complaining about ds on her all the time! He's a wonderful person with a great heart; I just want so badly for him to be a well balanced happy kid.

Thanks again!
Jen
I do notice that exercise makes a huge difference too.

I really think this is one of those situations where mother's instinct or gut feelings comes into play. Is this more of just a few bad days or is it a pattern that is possibly getting worse? If it is more in line with a pattern than I would definitely seek counseling. And pat yourself on the back for considering it and not hiding hoping it will go away. There is nothing wrong with seeking help and my BF wishes she had picked up on the signs when her DD was a lot younger. Her DD is now 15 and going through some really hard times. She has been hospitalized once and on many medications and it is so sad to watch because she has such potential but she gets anxious which turns into depression. If she had the tools in place at an earlier age she might have better ways to cope with it.

And by no means am I making comparisons of my BF's DD with your son ... apples to oranges. But if your gut is telling you something is off, definitely seek help.

DS used to be the same way when I was on the phone. He would also get upset when DH and I shared a hug that excluded him. I explained to him that, just like he has lots of people he loves besides me, I have lots of people I love besides him, and giving a few minutes of my time and attention to someone else I love doesn't mean I stop loving him while I'm doing it - just like he doesn't stop loving me when he spends the night at Grandma's. I also said that, just like he sometimes spends time just with Daddy and sometimes just with me, Daddy and I sometimes need to spend time just with each other. It took a few reminders after that, but he really shaped up quickly and now shows much greater respect for other relationships and confidence in his own.

This is my DS7's problem too. I've finally read The Explosive Child (quite a wait from the library) - what a relief to read about other children like him, and to find a book for parents of the children who don't obediantly go to their rooms for time out. Frustration seems to be the key issue - just too much emotion for them to cope with, so everything bottlenecks into rage. I really recommmend the book - it gives a very different perspective on dealing with these children.

We do simple things mainly because DS is just four. I try to choose at least one wait and watch type of experiment if I have to do something else and allow him to free play. So in case his mind wanders it goes to the experiment. we have zero tolerance for tantrums. I can't think straight when it happens so he can cry his heart out but only in his room. He can come to me when he is ready to stop crying and use his words or just needs a hug. Being consistent is the key with him.

I REALLY like this idea. We're definitely going to try it! Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your experience. We'll definitely give it a shot. Ds doesn't eat much sugar really, but will try to monitor that and look for a pattern.

Thanks!
Jen

I have to agree, if you can't find a counselor used to dealing with GT children than don't go that route. My son has been having panic attacks off and on for about six months. When I spoke to the school counselor she said most of the GT kids have those issues. She gave no new suggestions except seeing a therapist (for me) so I could learn how to deal with his issues not to teach my son. Then after reading (many) articles on the internet I went through the GT Teacher and suggested we get a peer group together (this is middle school aged students). Wow did that back fire. The GT Teacher sent my email to the Counselor and she pulled my son out of class to discuss the peer group. The whole idea for the group was to not single out my son as the only one struggling with this issue. My son was smart enough to say everything the counselor wanted to hear and put it back on me as over reacting. Then he came home furious, complaining about me setting him up to speak with a counselor that in his mind has no clue about people like him. I tend to agree with my son on this one. We are in NJ...anyone out there now of a professional specializing in counceling gifted students in the area?

Could these emotional meltdowns be a symptom of anxiety and panic attacks rather than just extreme perfectionism? Or, do the two go hand-in-hand? Right now, we're at the point of seriously considering ADHD. In fact, so far we've considered:

SPD-was diagnosed at 4 yrs
ADHD
Anxiety/Panic attacks
Perfectionism

I wish we could get this figured out!

I can tell you I thought the same thing.... perfectionism, anxiety, you name it. My DD has them both and yes, I think they all contribute. Regardless what the issue is, getting the emotions under control is what you need to work on.

As for my previous suggestion, My DD never ate a lot of sugar either, but I never realized how much she was getting over time through out the day, until I really started paying attention to labels. Anyhow, being consistent with "coping tequniques" is vital to success. I can't say DD's outbursts are totally gone, but now.... they only last seconds instead of the length they used to. She quickly realizes what she is doing and immediately catches herself and stops. It almost becomes habit as that outburst because their way of coping. My dd was very "intense"... emotionally, physically (meaning labels on clothing bothered her as a younger child... still do sometimes, but not like it used to. She would never wear certain things because of how they felt on her skin. Over stimulation seemed to cause anxiety, lack of sleep brought out the behaviors.... all of these things were triggers. Over time, you learn to know what can and can't bring out a melt-down and try to curb it before it happens (not by distracting so that it won't happen, but to teach the coping technique to deal with it when it does.)

This sounds like it's worth a try. Good for you for figuring it out in the first place.

Grinity

LOL - that sounds so familiar, where have I lived that before? And we can be intense and carry things farther than any advice-giver ever imagined. Still, I had a lot of fun back then!

Honestly, It's great that you are teaching him to be independent, but yes, it takes a long long long time. And like the Bamboo tree, you aren't seeing many leaves, but the root system is growing.

From my vantage point, 6 is really really young for a baby-extrovert to amuse himself. My DS13 is perfectly happy without my undivided attention as long as he is watching TV, or playing computer, preferably facebook. And how good are you with time alone with nothing to do? Not that you ever have noting to do, but if you did?

Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity, how do u always figure me out?! I HATE being alone and I get bored so easily with things, especially if I'm unable to interact with people. I think ds is a mini-me, but for some reason that doesn't help me deal with him better. Hopefully with age, he'll develop better coping strategies. We're working on it! Maybe we're just too much alike. I will try to think about this when I'm getting frustrated with him. As usual, thanks for helping me see something that is right in front of my eyes!

Oh my, I was giving suggestions here, feeling glad that DS4 has not been having any meltdowns since past few months and what a day I had. 4 meltdowns in just 5 hours, go figure .

Oh joys! We go through cycles it seems!

Because I just put myself in the situation you describe and ask myself how would perhaps you had better head over to energyparenting.com I had the exact same feeling when I read 'Transforming the Difficult Child,' like they had set up cameras in my home! They say it's for children who are 'Intense, Sensitive and Needy' - well I guess I could say DS is all three. To tell the truth, I feel that for as much information and sensation as he has to handle just going through his day, he is 'Easygoing, Not Over or Under Sensitive, and resourceful.' But compared to what his teachers are used to seeing day after day, yes, he fits the discription, KWIM?

How is parenting with love and logic working out? My concern is that even a calm 'lecture' is still putting attention (reinforcing) negative behavior, when the ignoring from your 5 minute technique allows your son to build inner resources.

Remember your resolve from the other thread to give more free play time? How is that working out. Be determined that if things are cooking at home, get outside and take a play break. You are in no hurry. He is still healing from his school experience. So often, we gifties think that because we can imagine something, it the world must able to give us that right now.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Just took a look at Transforming the Difficult Child and I think we will give it a try here. From the excerpts I read it may help DS a great deal.

Did you get a chance to check it out Jen? I know we have noticed similarities in our children and it sure sounds like it has a lot to offer. If you get a chance let me know what you think.

At my own house. Behavior is in direct correlation with mind activity. Not all days are perfect days for my DD6, but I do my best with a baby in the house to entertain as well. At three, we did take her to a psychologist for some extreme anxiety issues she was experiencing at the time and I really felt that it helped. She went to the psych for about three months and was returning to normal play again after that.

I would say to watch for escalating behaviors for sure. That's a definite red flag to me in our house.

In a pinch, I have her "create" environments out of shoe boxes and whatever materials indoors and outdoors she'd like. Northwest...desert...ocean...etc. That helps when I've not got anything else planned.

I also use a book called "Helping Your Anxious Child" which I adapted for my own use with a younger child. It helped. Negative reinforcement is not real effective at our house either. Although, I do still use some form of 1,2,3 or love and logic depending on the situation. Sometimes I just need time-out for my own sake.

But, like I said...I can tell when a change is needed because her behavior goes from bad to worse pretty quickly. And most often what's needed it MORE brain activity!!!

Good Luck, I'm also going to take a peek at Transforming the Difficult Child.

Thanks everyone. I will also check out Transforming the Difficult Child. This week, we've spent a lot of time talking about alternatives to emotional meltdowns. His knee-jerk reaction is still the tantrum, but he has been stopping himself VERY quickly and choosing one of the other alternatives:

1.Taking a deep breath and pretending to blow a bubble very slowly.
2.Asking for a hug.
3.Taking a break for a full minute and then going back to the task at hand.
4.Simply asking for help. I require him to be very specific about what kind of help he needs.

I told him we can add to the list as he finds more appropriate outlets that work for him.

Grinity, there was another time you pegged me when you said, "Is it just the noise that bothers you, Mom? Exactly what about the meltdown bothers you so much?" I've thought about that, and I really feel like some of this is me. The tantrums are a big deal to me because I don't know how to handle them. I'm supposed to be able to solve all problems, right? (I don't know where ds gets his perfecionism from?! haha) Also, the more I read about ADHD, the more convinced I am that I have it. I am impulsive, have difficulty sticking with things that don't interest me, jump from one thing to the next (i.e., discipline strategies), am disorganized, hate following a prescribed schedule, and forget things A LOT, etc. I'm sure there are more symptoms. Ds needs consistency, order, and routine, so I have to work really hard on that for his sake and mine.

crazydaisy-downtime is our enemy here. If ds's mind is not engaged, that's when I see the most meltdowns. Also, if he's hungry, his mind is not focused and he loses it completely. The problem is he doesn't ask for food, so I have to be really good about feeding him on a schedule (lots of little snacks), and like I said I'm just great at schedules!

By the way, you may already know this, but I found it very helpful...last school year we were seeing the meltdowns at school too. The school counselor, who happens to be a licensed mental health counselor, said that any behavior mod strategy you try should be done for a minimum of 21 consecutive days to become habit. She said if you skip days, you'll just have to do it longer before it becomes ingrained. That's what we did with the 5 minute time-outs. It completely eliminated the meltdowns (for a time). We stopped doing it b/c we didn't need to anymore. Now theeeey'reeee baaaaackkkk! We've started it again, so we'll see if it works the same way this time

What I get from Parenting from Love and Logic is allowing natural consequences to teach a lesson rather than a gentle lecture. I see the five minute break as a natural consequence in that people don't want to be around you when you're yelling and crying. I present it this way rather than as a punishment. Ds will even say, "is this a punishment?!" Sometimes I'll say, "no, you just need a break, and so do I." Usually, I just ignore and hold up 5 fingers.

I struggle with trying to always create the perfect atmosphere in my home. My dad says I'm just as hard on myself as ds is on himself. We probably all need to relax a little. Wish I knew how! Dear God, I'm turning into my mother, the Queen of Worry! I know she meant well, but her parenting created the perfectionism that I struggle with today. (Not that I blame her or anything! hehe) I don't want to do the same with ds.

Thanks again guys. I have learned as much about myself in the past few months as I have about my son!

JenSMP,
Maybe you do have ADHD, or ADHD 'trait' - first question you have to ask is: 'Is my life working or failing?' If your life is working (I didn't say perfect, you don't have a disorder! You might have the trait though!)
On the other hand, you may find books on ADHD to be helpful. I'm reading one right now:

www.amazon.com/ADD-Friendly-Ways-Organize-Your-Life/dp/1583913580

that is just making me laugh and laugh, because I've already adopted 99% of those suggestions just through trial and error and Flylady.net. I think of myself as HG, maybe PG in my big strength area/ADHD 'trait'/Perfectionist (harsh judger)/Bird's eye view thinker so lots of things that are easy for other people are hard for me, and lots of things that are just impossible for other people are easy for me. I spent years trying on one diagnosis after another, trying to figure out what was 'wrong' with me, that I was so 'different.' Then my son hit school, and the rest is history!

Flylady.net was a tremendous help to me, and I have lots fewer 'low moods' since adopting her ways of living. Accepting myself as an 'unusually gifted' person has helped so much as well, but it did take me a few years. I was on a gifted parenting board at the time, and it had an barely used 'Adult Gifted' section. Sure enough, every 3 months I would be on there, ranting about DH and replaying all our verbal arguments and the ways we hurt each other. You could set your calendar by it.

What I like about 'transforming' is that it is written in a very confident way, and that has given me the courage to 'take deep breaths' when my family members are acting out, and feel like I AM doing it 'Right' no matter what the other person does. Slowly over the last 3 months, with slips here and there, things are changing for the better at my house. Transforming the Difficult Child is as much about Transforming the Intense/Sensitive/Standards-out-of-whack Parent as it is about changing the child.

BTW, I like to tease 'Perfectionistic' out into various threads. ((1000 words for snow, right?))
Part of gifted perfectionism is that we grew up without any reliable reference, and we continue to function with any reliable reference. My mom (Hi Mom in Heaven!) maintained for many years that we were normal, and happend to live in a 'way below average town' filled with 'way below average intelligence' people. Ok, I'm being generous with her words here - you know what she called 'them.'

I couldn't use my classmates as reference. I used the fictional characters in books. I thought that if I was less upbeat than Pippi Longstockings, less brave and loving than Anne Frank, less plucky than Breezus that I must be a terrible failure. Can you wonder that I judged myself harshly? But with my intensity, the characters in the books seems so real, more than flesh people all around me!

JenSMP, do you have a list of self-nurturing things that you can do for yourself? Seems to me that if you are going to make a go of this, then you are going to have to get good sleep, reasonable amounts of excercise, healthy food, avoid the little bad habits that don't agree with you if there are any (caffiene, sugar, romantic movies, you know what I mean)carve out nurturing social time for yourself, date night with DH, enough artistic/intellectual stimulation, etc. Great news is that if you couldn't do it for your own sake, soon it will become pretty obvious that if you want to avoid becoming your mom, you have to do this, for your son's sake. That should help!

Smiles,
Grinity

Great List! Good Job! Great to see that he is responding to what you are teaching him!

Smiles,
Grinity

master of none-I can't wait to hear those words!! I can take anything if I know there's an end in sight, even if it IS 3 years from now. My concern is that he'll still be melting down at 16, and that's just not cool.

Grinity- thank u again for the support. Today was a fabulous day, and sometimes that's all it takes to remind myself I can do this and so can ds. It also helps so much to know that others can relate.

XXXXX,
Jen

I think my idea of 'ADHD trait' is very similar to Momabear's experience on the other thread!

So glad to hear that you had a great day! Each great day is precious.
Grins