Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional What is going on?!!! Need help, please!!

Ok, did I say that my sweet boy is back because it seems he's now posessed by the devil!

I am at my wits end!!! I thought things were going so well with homeschooling, and now my ds6 has turned into a little moster! I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I don't even want to be around him! Everything that comes out of his mouth is negative. We're back to constant meltdowns over EVERYTHING. Last night he dropped a big block on his foot,and I know it hurt, but I couldn't even respond to his meltdown. I'm immune to them now! It's like the little boy who cried wolf. You just stop reacting.

He will not cooperate with anything I try to teach him now. I hear, "I can't do it" or "This is too boring." I try a traditional approach, and he's bored. I try a nontraditional approach, and he's bored or says he doesn't get it and melts down. The thing is, I know he is capable of what we are doing. I feel like he's pushing my buttons because I'm Mom. I have no patience for this. I feel so much pressure to make homeschooling work that when we have day after day of accomplishing nothing, I feel like I'm failing. It was going so well; what has happened?!!!

Then, to top it off, I am convinced he has ADHD which just adds to the stress. He went to his martial arts class yesterday, and he didn't pay attention at all. The instructor is constantly having to redirect him. It's only his second lesson, but my point is I'm seeing the inattention in every setting. I really don't want to medicate him, but I'm not sure what to do.

I'm trying to work on scheduling and following a strict schedule b/c I hear that that's what works best with children with ADHD. Because I'm always redirecting and dealing with meltdowns we can't seem to keep to our schedule.

He's just so negative all of a sudden. I know something is going on with him, but I'm at a loss and just exhausted with it at this point. I'm sorry; I'm just overwhelmed and need to vent in a safe place I don't want to lose it with my family because I don't want to hear "I told you so" about homeschooling.

Thanks for "listening".

Jen, I'm so sorry. I suspect fellow HSers will have words of wisdom for you soon. As the parent of an inattentive boy who is quick to utter "I can't" to the most basic of things I feel for you. Redirecting is tiring. Wishing you the best!

Hi Jen,
I'm sorry you are feeling so oppressed. Just when things were going so well. Before you jump to the ADHD conclusion (and that may be exactly what is going on) lets just go back to the basics.

1) have you asked your son what is going on?

2) How long have you been homeschooling? Perhaps the 'honeymoon' is over and he needs a little break to de-school for a awhile?

3) How long has the bad behavior been going on?

4) What does he do in his spare time?

5) Nutritional struggles?

6) Friendship changes?

7) Getting ready to grow 3 inches?

8) Getting ready to come down with the flu?

9) Sleep issues?

10) What is your stress level like? It seems like when you started HSing, you were 'at your wit's end' and a bit more stressed than usual. Was your son feeding off your emotions then and is showing the effect now that you've calmed down?

11)Scary TV or movies lately?

12) When can you first remember noticing that DS was 'impossible' - what was going on at the time

I've never (exclusively) homeschooled, so take me with a grain of salt, but all of us go through ups and downs with our selves and our families.
Here's my advice -

A) Try to schedule some time away from your son - no, don't lock him in a closet, but do try to arrange some respite.
B) Plan some nurturing activities, hopefully outside and physically active for the two of you together.
C) Journal (here or in private) and Talk (to a friend or religious leader or professional) about what is bothering you.
D) Go into 'observation mode.' Throw all your expectations out the window, be grateful for your health and his, and see what happens if you just observe. Cancel classes for the week and call it vacation. See if you can get your son to 'want' school. Meanwhile bake cookies, clean the house, go to the library, visit friends. Afterall, he's probably already learned more in the past few weeks of homeschooling that he would have learned in an entire year of school, so you don't have to be worried or stressed anymore. What would you do with DS if you had a whole year just to 'have health fun?'

This asynchronous development is no fun at all. I wouldn't be suprised if there aren't a few periods where he has to 'catch up with himself' a bit before forging ahead. But I do trust that a child will always - if allowed - rediscover from within the excitement of learning.

As your son's learning coordinator, I think it's a bit like body surfing. You learn how to time the waves and launch yourself at the just right time, and let the natural currents carry you from there. Your abiltiy to see which waves will be strong and which ones aren't will get better with experience. Your will be able to work with what nature hands you will improve.

As for dealing with the meltdowns, do you already have a favorite parenting book? If not, you can borrow my current fav:

Have you asked your son what is going on? Does he want to go to school? Is he not sleeping enough? Is something else stressing him out?

I'm so sorry! I hope that you can figure out what's going on with him!

Have you taken him to a neurologist? I only ask because we have the same stuff going on with our ds6. He has intense meltdowns and NOBODY understands. He was suspended for hitting...if anyone makes him feel stupid, unfortunately his reaction has become physical. His entire day can be ruined. He is also literally running away at school, and we are considering homeschooling. We took him to a neurologist to rule out ADD/ADHD. It is a medical condition that cannot be 100% identified appropriately with questionnaires and screenings...especially when gifted kids a lot of times have the same characteristics. Asynchronous development ROCKS!

You are not failing! You are trying something new and it will take time for you and your son to figure it out and adjust.

take a deep breath. re-read the responses you have gotten so far. try to ignore what your relatives might say. take another deep breath. **hugs**

Remember he is a child first and needs to play. I think very gifted children need more play than other children.

How long does school take? A six year old can probably do all their lessons in two hours. But if you are using an online program or a package that would not be the case.

From experience these children seem to be more sensitive to diet and sleep.

Does he have a place to run around for a couple of hours a day? Some boys need to run around and explore for a couple of hours before they can do school work.

I've known people that took their high energy boys on field trips a couple of times per week. Is his behavior okay in public that you could do this?

I was told routine is more important than schedule with ADHD and anxiety. So if you have a routine that you can follow on certain days and a calendar of events for him to look forward to that would be great.

Perfectionism?
Read Mindset and write down all the suggestions on how to speak to him. I typed up my list and made several copies and keep it beside me so I can read the appropriate affirmation. (I have not got them all memorized yet, and it is too easy to say an old one by mistake.) It is corny, but it works.

If you have not already a full eval with a gifted specialist. If you go the psychologist route and he or she sees something that they can't deal with then you will have to see a pediatric neuropsychiatrist. With the later there is often a waiting list so one could do the first and then cancel the other if it is not needed.

I'm sorry. It is really difficult with little support out there. I've found some of the most helpful parents have children with Aspergers __even when your child does not have that diagnosis. They understand difficult behavior and some are very savy on behavior interventions, diet, and nutritional supplements that may work with these children.

And definitely you need a break once a week, a day all to yourself. I hope you have that kind of support from a partner, family, or friends.

Thanks guys! I am having a really hard time with just playing. I feel like if ds is not in regular school he should be learning at home. Not incidental learning; meaurable progressive learning. If ds ends up going back to school I want to know for sure that he is prepared.

I did ask ds what's going on and he says he is tired every day even on nights when he seems to get enough sleep. The behaviors I'm seeing (about a week) are consistent with how he acts when tired. Maybe there's something to that. We have a good bedtime routine and he falls asleep quickly. He does wake up in the night a lot and he says he has a hard time falling back asleep. Are there any supplements that might help? Maybe he's not getting enough physical activity now that we are homeschooling? He's never been a great sleeper but this is unusual even for him.

I hope I didn't sound horrible in my original post. I love ds so much and I'm just so worried about him. It's hard to make and keep friends with this behavior, not to mention how difficult it is to learn. He is a very bright boy so I'm sure he will be fine in the long run. In the short run, how do we make this work?

I will try to relax. I'm sure that will help. Maybe the pressure I feel is rubbing off on him. We will me leaving town on Thursday so I just tlod ds we are having a fall beak. I need a chance to regroup and plan for some alternative activities for the days when we need to shift gears. I'm also probably underestimating how much he's learning now vs. when he as in school.

Thank you for your input, support, and advice. Du says I should just chalk it up to a bad week and focus on the parenting book we both like. It's called Parenting with Love and Logic.

Hi, I am a fairly new homeschooler (we started last year after spring break). It took a while for us to eliminate the tempermental meltdowns. The doctor said my DS had post traumatic stress disorder. She said it was normal for children to have an emotional breakdown when they are removed from a stressful situation.

That definately made sense in our situation. While we were "recovering" from public school, I tried to be patient and I used a lot of alternative teaching methods, such as videos, songs in the car, field trips, etc. I could have skipped this and just hung out (which is sometimes the best thing!), but I was worried that I'd be shirking my teaching duties and I had a county review coming up soon.

After the summer, I was prepared to have similar issues with my son when school started. However, he hasn't had any of those problems this year so far. (Thank God!) I don't feel like I necessarily did anything special to get us here. I just think time served as a terrific healing agent.

I hope your little guy comes out of his funk soon. I read once that you should hug your child and tell them you love them 10 times a day...whether you feel like it or not. There have been times I have had to apply this rule to myself to make it through family challenges (we have 6). It's been as good for me as my children.

I should note that two of our children are ADHD (not our gifted child). Without their meds, they would be unable to learn. I see many unfocused behaviors in our gifted child as well. However, they do differ significantly. For example, DS7 can read for hours, draw for hours, etc. but sometimes tunes me out when I am covering material that he finds uninteresting, or he'll attend a sporting event and tune out the coach, because he really doesn't care about the activity. -- Also, when we started homeschooling last year, he would constantly yawn or fain indifference, because he had genuinely lost his love of learning.

On the other hand, our 2 with ADHD cannot get through a simple book, repeat questions over and over, because they cannot retain answers, spill constantly, misplace items on a routine basis, etc.

So, I guess I am trying to say that what appears to be ADHD may or may not be. It could be learned boredom/indifference, or it could actually be a brain/nerve disorder. I think a mother's intuition is good, so I would recommend you have him tested. However, keep in mind that (from what I've read), many gifted children gets placed in the same bucket because they are divergent thinkers.

Hang in there. Homeschooling is definately harder than I thought it would be (mostly because I want to do the best job possible). However, it is also incredibly rewarding once you get past the initial settling period.

To answer a couple of questions:

We've only had the gifted testing done by a school psychologist. Ds was diagnosed with SPD when he was 4, but I thought he had overcome a lot of those issues. Is behavior in public is fine, other than the constant fidgeting and movement (ants in the pants!). In fact, his behavior is very good when he is engaged in something that's interesting to him. I feel like he has to learn to cope with situations that are unpleasant or in situations where he is uninterested. I swear he believes the rest of the world is here to entertain him. We do have space for him to play but he is not very independent. For him, being the social creature that he is, solo activities are pointless. He's beginning to play a little more on his own in his room, but if I tell him to go outside and play, he'll say it's boring because there are no kids to play with. When I ask him if he'd prefer to be in school, he says no. It's probably the same for him as it is for me. We are choosing between two flawed alternatives. Neither is perfect. Oh, and dh thinks some of this has to do withMom being teacher.

We just had a HORRIBLE day yesterday with homeschooling DS8, and in fact the whole year has been pretty rough.

I think there have been two problems for us:

1) He never really committed to school this year. The phrase "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" was never so true as it is for homeschooling! Do whatever you can to get your child invested in the process. Allow him to pick topics for study. Let him choose which book to read and which subject to work on first. Anything to get him into.

2) I was reviewing too much and underchallenging him. Little wonder that he was acting out! Kids can get just as bored if Mom moves too slowly as they can with any other teacher. I picked up the pace and we had a much better day.

Also, be sure you're not asking for too much of your DS's time. This may not be a problem for you, but I think it pays to remember that in a 1-on-1 teaching situation, his brain pretty much always has to be on. It's very intense for a 6yo. When DS8 was that age, we did roughly 3.5 hours of work 4 days a week and that was PLENTY for the academic subjects! Even at age 8, we're not doing much more than that. So don't overdo it.

Hang in there. Talk more if you need to. I know I've been calling upon my support network lately!

JenSMP - what do you think of these?

more physical activity => better sleeping, perhaps?

what kind of fun can you have on your "fall break"?

Hi,

My DS is just a toddler and I know this website is not really for advice about supplements, but since you specifically asked -- I saw a remarkable difference in him in the week around when I started him on a vitamin E supplement (just a cup of chocolate flavored almond milk every day, which he thinks of as a treat). Kids are all so unique in their genetics and what they eat etc (one might be right to say my toddler just had a coincidental development spurt that week) that its a shot in the dark for me to even mention it. But I was taken aback at the difference, I started not looking for behavior change but just worrying he wasn't getting enough vitamin E as its mainly in nuts and spinach type veggies, and I had read something suggesting kids were generally not getting enough. The main difference that week was an improvement in tolerance of frustration, and seeming a bit mellower, so that he didn't get to the totally frustrated level quite as fast or often.

I chose almond milk over a pill as there is more than one chemical version of vitamin E and I hoped a natural product would have more complexity than a supplement, be more food-like.

Random abstract of a study showing over half of 2-5 year olds (in their study location in Nebraska) have questionable vitamin E levels:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Hey you could always try it first on you... do a study of one....see if your time-to-frustrate-with-Home-School-teaching gets longer, LOL.

I think of myself as a 6 year old and I can not imagine my parents having success home schooling me. I would have just said no no no, whereas at school at least the teacher was a authority figure I didn't feel quite as comfortable arguing with. School was boring and I didn't learn much until high school, but I'm also glad I didn't have a reason to feel conflict with my mom. I would imagine home schooling would work wonderfully for some kids and not well for some others (like me.)

Polly

LOL - Can you get a sitter and spend some time in the 'one year ahead' classroom so you can see what the goal is? I think 'hard cold facts' are the best way to counteract worry.

You don't sound horrible at all. If your son is acting bad enough to discourage playdates, then he is acting pretty bad.

It's great that you and your DH have a parenting book that you both like - so nice to be 'on the same page.'

I think that they are big into letting the child 'own' the problem, and you sort of being the consultant, yes? I think that follows with the idea of needing to 'detox' after a difficult time in school and letting your son find his spark again.

Maybe an 'intrum session' on meditation to relax you and teach your son some valuable life lessons?

How long since the homeschooling started?
How many hours a day were you trying to get accomplished?

Celebrate that you get to face up to your fears about having to prove that homeschooling is the right choice, or that you can teach him, or whatever is behind the idea that you should be able to do this correctly. The schools couldn't do it correctly, so why should you? Lots of us gifties have really, really unrealistic ideas about what we should be able to accomplish in this world. Having no reasonable 'frame of reference' makes it tough!

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I feel your pain here, but I really think that very small doses is what is called for.

We do have space for him to play but he is not very independent. For him, being the social creature that he is, solo activities are pointless. [/quote]
Yep! Although I'm all for 'no TV' during the school day, I think that for a kid like this, educational videos at his readiness level is ok to use as part of his day.

Are there any homeschool social times or homeschool physical education classes you can sign him up for?


Yippee! That's a really big deal!

Yup, my DH thinks that everything is my fault. Maybe he doesn't think this on the inside, but he just says it in a 'knee-jerk' kind of manner. Way to be supportive dear! Was he planning on cutting back his work schedule to take on some of the burden? Actually, I think that working with DH to find an 'aftersupper' topic (Math, the Stockmarket, a 2nd language, anything you find boring...) is really a great idea. So glad he came up with it.

What I hate about this kind of suggestions, is that they don't lead anywhere. If I say, 'hey, maybe you are stressed and need more time off' you can arrange more time off and do deep breathing. If someone says, 'oh, that's because you are his Mom' what are you going to do? Go to the Judge and ask for emancipated Minor status? Hire a private tutor? Hey, your DH comes up with a lot of great ideas! I'm starting to like him!

Smiles,
Grinity

First off, we are not homeschoolers but I do afterschool and homeschool all summer. (our last summer was 11 weeks- a long summer!) I completely understand what you mean about progressive learning. I think it's hard for people who are new to homeschool in general, to really understand that learning is going on all the time. Kriston talked me down from my proverbial ledge last spring when we considered homeschooling!

We also tested my son when he was 5 because we were told repeatedly that he had ADHD. According to everyone except his teachers then, he does not. He was just annoyed, bored and anxious from repeatedly getting in trouble.

Tough love first- I think you need to step back and figure out how HE learns best, not what is the easiest way for you to teach. It might be unexpected. My son loves loves the computer. I think it's weird to not do worksheets. I've had to learn to adjust to that! I give him a math worksheet on the computer and he's thrilled. On paper at the table and he's whiny and it's "too hard."

Next, realize that there is value and learning in every adventure. Grinity has good suggestions about visiting a class a year ahead. You can also read "What your ___ grader needs to know" or look at your state standards. I suspect you'll have an eye opening "he knew that two years ago" kind of moment.

For managing the day to day, I also have a social one who does not play alone. Kriston told me my goal for the summer should be getting him to play alone and she was totally right and it seriously CHANGED OUR LIVES! I started by hanging up a "20 things to do when I'm bored" list. I would warn him 30, 15 and 5 min before I had to leave him "alone" for a few minutes. We started with 10 min, worked up to 30. If he can't find something to do, then I'll pick off the list- not all of which is good stuff but it serves as a reminder! We also use audiobooks a lot. He can move, jump, play, fidget or whatever while listening to the story.

Consider finding ways around the ants in the pants problem. Have him sit on an exercise ball at the table to do writing or typing. Do math outside on the swings. Do science at the zoo with a camera etc. Use whatever tools you can to make learning less about "school" and more about stretching his brain.

Wow. this got longer than I meant it to be! Hang in there!

Haha! I think my dh just meant that ds pulls crap with me that he wouldn't try with a "teacher."

Great suggestions! Thank you allvery much!

We had just the opposite. DS pulls stuff with teachers that he wouldn't dream of trying with DH, let alone ME. ((wink))

Thankfully, DS tests all the boundaries at home, but plays it straight in school. If I had a choice, I'd definitely pick what we have. His sister's come close to becoming an only child once or twice, but at least we don't have to worry about his behavior with teachers.

Are you sure you don't have my DS? DS is like this too. One of his teachers was shocked to find out that he ever gets into trouble at home, she just couldn't imagine it. Not that DS is a heathen at home, but he does a bit more than his fair share of boundary testing...LOL.

You guys have gotten me through this day!!! Thank you! I sent ds to grandpa's house and went out for a manicure/pedicure and a hair appointment. I feel like a new woman! It helped getting a little time away from ds for me to get it together. Of course, I'm still worried, but I feel like I can start fresh next week with a new, more relaxed approach. I'm also going to try to limit downtime by adding in some more games and outings.

I have to say, ds isn't a behavior problem so much as he's just exhausting to be with sometimes. It's more about the hypersensitivities, negativism, perfectionism, and meltdowns (not angry, more like "poor me") than it is about misbehavior. He is never defiant nor does he try to break rules. He's just impulsive, and like my dh always says, for someone so smart, he sure does some dumb things! LOL

I have no patience for giving up on things. That's probably the biggest issue for me. Ds just expects to understand everything the first time he tries, and he wants to do it HIS way. He is certain that HE knows the best way to do something. For example, we were working on multiplication today. I'm trying to use nontraditional methods, so we were using his trains. We were only doing 2X1, 2x2, etc. I'm pretty sure he understands the concept, but I need to know for sure. So, I explained what to do and demonstrated. "2X3, we want to make two groups of three, now count the total." No, he wanted to do it in his head or use his fingers. Using the trains was "boring." When we got to the higher numbers, he couldn't do it in his head immediately (he doesn't have the times tables memorized) so he freaked out, started crying, said how stupid he is, how he can't do ANYTHING! We hear this so often now, I'm immune. I feel that it's his way of manipulating. I don't think he really believes he's stupid.

I know I'm his mom, but is it my job to jump through hoops to create an unrealistic perfect world for ds? If that's the case, he's in for a rude awakening, when I'm not there to help him. Oh dear God, did I just say that?!!! I'm glad my mother wasn't here to hear those words!! I'd really be hearing "I told you so!" She used to say that to me all the time when I was young!! She says to me all the time, "NOW do you understand?" Haha!

I think I'll look for some books on dealing with perfectionism. That's probably the hardest thing to deal with and it's the toughest thing for us to help ds deal with. I want him to feel good about himself. He's the most loving, caring, sensitive child I've ever known (we probably all say that!), and I'm very proud of him. But, he's definitely the square peg that's never going to fit into a round hole. Sometimes that's a blessing, and sometimes it just makes me sad.

>>When we got to the higher numbers, he couldn't do it in his head immediately (he doesn't have the times tables memorized) so he freaked out, started crying, said how stupid he is, how he can't do ANYTHING!<<

I could have typed the same sentence to describe my DS's behavior. It's nice to know others share similar experiences.

Yippee! This is very good news.

I would certianly check your insurance and see if Occupational Therapy is covered for your son. Then I would look for an OT that does 'Sensory Integration' with kids. There is no need for you to just 'grin and bear' the hypersensitivities. They are treatable. 6 is a great age to do so. You have the time. Get going!
Ummm, do you know who you sound like here? Do you have a little 'devil' inside of you too?
Read up on overexcitabilities. He isn't doing this to 'get' you, he is showing what is inside that was never safe enough to show at school or with Dad. But it's real to him. The OT will help. Time will help. These emotional melt downs will help.

Let Him! Ask him how he wants to learn multiplication. Help out if you can, and back off if you can't. It's his learning. At age 6 he would still be adding 1+2 at most schools. Really. Of course you can skip count while you are walking down the steps. Just don't let on that you are doing it 'for him.'

Totally normal, they probably did way to much of this with counting and adding at his school.

He is having a tantrum. It's probably not manipulating because it sure doesn't 'get' him anything. I think it is just his process, his way of thawing out his disappointments from school,part of the healing process. I've spend many years with folks to sincerely believe that this is the path to emotinal healing: rc.org.
nope, it's your job to nurture yourself through these tough times when he will need to cry and cry over his sorrows, and learn that learning is a process, and it's ok not to get it right the first time. You can be open with him about your trial and error process of figuring out how to assist him with learning.



no we do not. He probably is loving and caring and sensitive - it all goes together sometimes.

I'm very proud of you JenSMP! Can you get grandpa to pitch in on a regular basis? I love how much you are learning about yourself and your son and your clear love for him.
Smiles and Waving Proudly,
Grinity

Grinity-thank you so much. You need your very own Dear Abbey column for gifties! You have a gift for getting to the core of a problem, seeing it for what it really is, and putting it into perspective. Thank you for that.

Ds was diagnosed with SPD when he was 4 by an OT. His pediatrician didn't think it was SPD; she thought he was gifted way back then and related everything to that. She has a gifted son, and apparently my ds is much like her child. We did the OT for a while, a good long while, and I finally pulled ds out of it. It was a great clinic, and his therapist was very good, but after a while it didn't seem to make a big differnce for ds. I still implement a lot of the sensory integration strategies into our day, but maybe I need to do it on a very consistent basis instead of waiting to apply them when things are getting out of hand. I should probably use it as more of a preventative measure instead of as treatment on a particularly difficult day.

I will work on following ds's lead with regards to homeschooling. I'll probably get a lot more out of him that way. And, I'll give him time to recoup from the very stressful situation he was in at school. Thanks for helping me to get it together today. Your support was exactly what I needed.

We get the same response if questions are put this way. On the other hand, if I ask him how many cupcakes he'll need if five of his friends come over and want four each, there is no problem at all. The Kung-fu Panda approach works well when he's feeling negative.

I'm glad you're feeling improved - they are such hard going sometimes. If I had a Harry Potter style lockable cupboard under the stairs I'd definitely use it. Just as well they have so many lovely moments too.

I'm coming late here, but I definitely sympathize as another homeschooler of intense GT kids!

One thing that I like to tell people about how we homeschool, is that my bare minimum requirements are read, write, (language arts), math everyday. Science and history at least once a week. On different days that can be different things. Requirements can be fulfilled by a field trip or internet research some days. Some days we're cranking along and end up doing a couple hours math. Most days it's probably closer to 30 minutes. Some days we diverge completely from our chosen curriculum.

We go to a co-op on Wednesday which really breaks up the week. I felt like my DS (9 today!) barely did anything as a 2nd grader last year homeschooling. At the end of the year we did achievement testing that showed a very different story.

Relax! :-) It's not a race. Lots of elementary schools are just starting to get into new material this time of year!

You mentioned that your DS wakes up a lot during the night. Have you looked into the possiblity of sleep apnea? Waking up a lot at night, snoring, or just seeming like he didn't get as much sleep as he did can be signs of sleep apnea. I have read that a lot of kids with undiagnosed sleep apnea can act as if they have ADHD. Just a thought.

Oh, another thought, too. I read somewhere (I think in those "Your X-Year Old" books) that kids go through cycles of disequilibrium that often coincide roughly with their half birthdays. So, around their birthdays all is going well, they're following rules and routines, they're generally pleasant. And then, wham-o, at around their half-birthday they start questioning all the rules again and they start acting out and pushing limits -- kind of a stretching out period. And then it all normalizes again. I obviously don't know if this is the case with your DS and I'm guessing it can happen at any intervals, but I see this with my kids.

I hope everything returns to a state of equilibrium again and that you have happy days ahead.

It's funny you mention this because we were doing those types of word problems in the car a couple of days ago, and he enjoyed it. He did it without difficulty, but he thought of it as a game. I guess I'm still so personally attached to traditional teaching/learning that I fall back on it. It's what I know. I'll try to keep this in mind and do some stealth teaching. I'm a speech therapist and I work in geriatrics. Usually I'm dealing with dementia and cognitive therapy, but it's very touchy when you point out to an elderly person that they might be having memory or other reasoning problems. So, I do what I call stealth therapy or incognito therapy. I ask questions, play games, do whatever I have to do to treat without calling it treatment. Often, the patient assumes I'm just a nice person visiting with them or spending time with them. I need to do more of this with ds!

Also, about the sleep apnea...I've wondered the same thing, but ds doesn't ever snore. He is always congested though, so I'm wondering more about allergies. He was tested at 2 years old, and they found no allergies. Although, from what I understand it's hard to assess allergies at that age. Now that he's 6, maybe I should check that out again. He does move around a lot at night, but I thought that was pretty normal. I was like that as a kid too. Who knows, but sleep has always been an issue for us since he was born. He was a colichy baby too.

Thanks again for your responses. It's so helpful!

Oh, I just looked up some info on sleep apnea. It says you don't necessarily have to snore to have it. I think I'll take ds to the doctor to talk about his complaints of being tired and ask if sleep apnea is a possibility. I'll also ask about the allergies. Thanks again.

Constant congestion is a pretty good sign there is something allergy related going on.

When Bear was about 6 months I knew he had allergies. The stand in pediatrician (ours was on maternity leave) said no, babies that age can't have allergies. So I gave him allergy medication in the correct dose for his size and voila! no more symptoms. Our Pediatrician came back and agreed with me...

Also people can grow into and out of allergies, so periodic testing if there is concern isn't a bad idea.

About the school part, I've learned a hard lesson about letting it go. Wolf used to love worksheets, would do them for hours. Now that they are a part of "school" he complains that he has too many. Basically what I have done is stop giving him any work I'm pretty sure he knows (not perfectly, just pretty sure) except every once in a while for review. I also let him know that it is review to make sure his brain remembers.

If he knew the math in the car, why do it again to make sure? He's already shown understanding. If he likes doing it in his head, why make it more concrete than that? Most of our multiplication work is all mental. Wolf is just not into touchy-feely math. If your guy gets upset when he doesn't get it immediately, say "fine can you think of another way to figure it out?" It stops being about not knowing and becomes about problem solving. Example: 17-9=what Ok, well what+9=17 gives you the same answer right? You know how to do it that way.

Also I know a lot of people are mentioning time and I don't know if you have mentioned how long you "do" school in a day. Wolf is in 1st in Independent Study and I specifically asked how many hours a day should we be aiming for. She said 4 and that even not doing any "real" schoolwork (sitting down with worksheets, etc...) we would probably surpass that with no issues at all each and every day. Reading books, talking about animals or the weather, running around on the playground, going with mom to vote, etc... All of that counts, so your stealth teaching idea should work great! So much time in a conventional school is taken up with organization and waiting. It's really mind boggling to realize how much.

This is a great learning experience for you - next time your DS is being stubborn, and having a hard time doing it any way except HIS way, think back on this transition. Flexibility is an 'Executive Function' and can be 'natural' or 'learned through practice.' But it's so great that you get firsthand experience with exactly how sticky a brain can be. My parents were terrific at giving me lots of chances to 'practice,' and of course I resented it, and bent over backwards not to 'train' my DS in this area. LOL on me! Luckily I read a book about it last year, and have started playing catch up with DS13, and it does really work! (The Brain that Changes Itself)


WOW and WOOT! W-A-T-E-R! I'm blown away. This is exactly the approach to take for the next 6 months. You have a great backround for this homeschooling thing. Nothing bad will happen if you 'just' have fun together and be a 'nice person visiting.' You can even do 'character development' with other areas, such as household organizing and maintenance, or sports. Think of this as an observational period where you are 'learning' him as a 'learning' and exploring the local resources.

Are there any Karate Classes that offer daytime classes near you? Or Gymnastics? Or a swim team that meets in the early morning. You son - to me- sounds like the kind of kid who needs something scheduled and physical almost daily. I wonder if that would eventually help with the sleep.

Smiles, Grinity

Great Story. I don't reccomend people 'doing medicine' on their own children,(unless it's an Over-the-counter Medicine with directions for the proper age group ) but I do reccomend 'doctor shopping' until you find someone who argees with you. It's a fine line - I know, but what if you really did need a doctor someday, wouldn't you want to find one who is 'good' in advance.

Let's level - although there are (many,some,at least a few) pediatricians who are as Intelligent as one could wish, as a group, the specialty of pediatrics doesn't attract the brightest of medical students. I've been blessed to find some of the exceptions, but don't be all resentful if it feels like you know more, and reason better, than your Pediatrician. Given the LOG of the kids around here, you just plain probably do.

I know, so many of us grew up with the idea that 'smart people become doctors.' A better picture would be that hardworking, compliant, bright to MG,dedicated people become clinical doctors. An HG or PG kid who wanted to go into clinical medicine would probably have to also teach, or do research, or happen to be off the wall 'Emotionally Gifted' to be really satisfied. Or come from an economic or social background where this kind of career was beyond their wildest dreams.

So yes, get the sleep apnea and allergy angles checked out, and keep asking for those referrals even if the pedi seems to be subtly discouraging. Eventually you will find the 'right' pediatrician for your family.

Smiles,
Grinity

Jen,
My son has Aspeger's and I can tell you that any major change in schedule creates a lot of tantruming and crying and random meltdowns that seem to come from nowhere. You just started Homeschooling, that is a huge schedule and life change. It is possible that your son's meltdowns have to do with dealing with this new schedule. Like everyone else says, I would hold on and try to take it easy. Let him relax a bit and don't be so hard on yourself when he tantrums.

Just wanted to say we're doing much better today. We're not doing any of our typical lessons, but we're doing fine. We leave tomorrow to go out of town for a wedding, so it'll be a nice break. We can start fresh next week with a new approach. Thanks to everyone for your support yesterday. It was a really tough day, and it helped so much.

I have the book called, Home Learning Year by Year, by Rebecca Rup. I went through the kindergarten and first grade curriculum (benchmarks) lists, and it helped to see how much ds already knows. I am going to focus on those items that he has yet to master and avoid the lesson by lesson approach I was taking with the curricula that I bought for homeschooling (Rightstart math, All About Spelling, First Language Lessons for the Well Trained MInd, Story of the World). I love all of those, but maybe I'm sticking too closely to the "plan".

Grinity-you asked about classes offered during the day. Ds goes to a mixed martial arts class three days a week, but he's just started that. It doesn't meet until 4pm though. It's hard to find any activities that go on during the daytime hours unless they are for toddlers. Ds also starts art and science classes at a small community private school next week. They meet once a week on Fridays. He'll be there for two hours for those classes plus one extra hour for recess with the kids. If it goes well, I could add another day or more at that school in the afternoons. It's going to come together eventually. I'm just not a very patient person. I want to make it work NOW! ; )

Hope you are all having a fabulous day!
Jen

Go Jen!
Enjoy the wedding and the vacation!
Sounds like your 3 part plan is perfect: 3 days a week of MMA, plus Friday classes plus 1st grade benchmarks - Yippee!

Being Patient is something we learn when we have too - and not a millisecond before ((giggle))
Grins

A truer statement there has never been!

Jen SMP- EVERY October, our son becomes grumpy, has tons of energy (WILD!!!), looks (but doesn't act) exhausted, can't keep control of his emotions and, overall, is 180 degrees different from his normal happy personality.

It took a few years and a few doctors before we discovered that he has really bad seasonal allergies (peaking in October here) which prevent him from getting into REM sleep at night. The sleep deprivation manifests itself with major behavior issues (not sleepiness). It always comes on suddenly and always precedes the more obvious allergy symptoms like a stuffy nose, cough, etc.

Our son started behaving like a monster last week and I couldn't figure out why he was so miserable. All my hubby had to say was "It's October!" and it instantly made sense. We've increased his meds, limited his time outside (with the irritants), and tried to be really patient. Fingers crossed, it'll pass soon . . .

I would definitely follow-up on the allergy and apnea testing, in addition to, the other great suggestions you have received here.

It took my 20 some odd years to find a doctor I trusted! She is also one of my closest friends. She is actually the one who helped me out on the dosage for the OTC allergy meds when the pediatrician was being a moron. It wasn't TOTALLY without doctors approval, just not the pediatrician's. I also have a very strong background in alternative medicine and do a lot of unofficial advising fro friends and family. The particular medicine I used is deemed safe for newborns and pregnant women so it would have been hard to screw it up.

Generally unless you are SURE of what is going on and KNOW that what you are going to try is safe with almost no chance of side effects don't medicate without a doctor's ok. Most doctors will give OTC ok's and even dosages for young children over the phone. Tylonal (aceitominiphen sp? lazy...), for instance, is fatal in large doses even for adults so be careful when mixing OTC's when you or your kids are sick. Lots of the mixed ones contain Tylonal. Public service announcement is now over.

Jen - I just wanted to say good luck with your new approaches next week. DSalmost6 is a stubborn mule with me, if I attempt to "teach" him anything, which is why I cannot homeschool him (or part of it). So kudos to you for sticking with it!

And I just wanted to add (didn't read everyone's responses so sorry if it's duplicated) not to forget about "recess". While kids all need structure and structured physical activities, they also need their "free" time, both for mental creativity and physical activity. It can be structured in that it's the same time every day, but it doesn't have to be an official lesson or preplanned activity, etc.

So true! This week is going so much better! When I start seeing frustration or if ds is losing interest, we switch gears, go for a walk, go to the park, etc, and then we come home and start fresh. I think I underestimate how much physical activitiy ds needs, and free play is his favorite kind!

[quote=JenSMP
So true! This week is going so much better! When I start seeing frustration or if ds is losing interest, we switch gears, go for a walk, go to the park, etc, and then we come home and start fresh. I think I underestimate how much physical activitiy ds needs, and free play is his favorite kind! [/quote]

So glad to hear this! That's a great policy you have there.
Grinity