Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment gifted non-reader?

Hello all,

I had a question concerning gifted kids who are not yet reading in kindergarten....we had DD5 tested about a year ago (when she was a little older than 4 1/2) using the WPPSI, and she came out with a FSIQ of 139 (99.5th percentile). We weren't really surprised about the high score, as she hit every milestone early and has been very verbal since forever. However, as verbal as she is, she is not really reading much yet and shows no real desire to do so. Practically every gifted child I've ever known has started reading spontaneously before kindergarten (even my 4-year-old, who we thought was nowhere NEAR her older sister, started reading on her own this summer shortly before she turned 4), but DD5 just doesn't seem to "get it."

I've read that the WPPSI can be "off" by quite a bit because tests given so young are generally less reliable - is it possible she's not as high as the test indicated? Does anyone else have experience with late readers?

My 5yo who is very verbal is not yet reading. He has some visual issues though, and is probably a candidate for vision therapy with a developmental optometrist. My suspicion is these visual issues are why he's not yet reading.

Not all HG+ kids read early though. Some start at a more or less "normal" time or even late. It's not unusual for these later bloomers to go from easy readers to Harry Potter in a matter of weeks.

Does the test score ring true to you beyond the reading issue?

I'd advise that testing is merely a tool to help you understand your child. It shouldn't be substituted for your own observations or "gut" sense about your child.

My DD6's testing shows her as gifted. She will be 7 this December and is just starting to read. Level 1 HOP and exactly first grade on her reading according to some of her achievement tests. We aren't sure why she isn't reading yet. My other two, very GT girls read early. The psychologist actually wrote, severe underachievement of unknown origin on her report. We are keeping our eyes open for problems but so far I see it as more of and interest thing. Both her sisters read extrememly well and will read for her.

I don't have anything to contribute other than support. When we had DS tested at almost 6 and he came out clearly gifted, the tester showed concern that DS wasn't reading based on his verbal scores. I hadn't thought about it at all to that point, but when the word 'dyslexia' got thrown around I did worry. 6 months later I still have no formal diagnosis, but I've been treating it as dyslexia and he's making improvements. The way he struggles with words I do believe there are underlying neurological weaknesses that will just take time to build. Many have told me not to worry, he's a boy, he's at grade level etc, but I recently learned there are reading difficulties in the extended family and my better judgment has led me to treat it as dyslexia.

The thread started a little while before yours may be worth looking into. Dyslexia

I had a child who went from not reading to reading at about a 5th grade level at the end of kindergarten. We didn't even know he was gifted until he hit the ceiling of the screener his school used to identify GT kids. He was an intense, sensitive, and highly inquisitive preschooler that was very interested in science. I thought all little boys that age were probably like that. In 3rd grade he is generally operating 3 or more years beyond grade level and he reads at a high school level. We are homeschooling now after a rough K and 1st grade year.

I have a newly 5 year old daughter who has not been tested. She declared she wanted to homeschool like her brother. She has read barely on and off for a while. In the past month she has taken off and suddenly "gets" it. I wouldn't be surprised to see her where here brother was in K by next summer.

In my kids cases, I think they both tend visual spatial and they are both just a bit perfectionist and lazy. Both had the tools (letter sounds, etc) to read forever. Their interests lay in other places as preschoolers (very active kids!) and we generally never really encouraged reading before kindergarten when we got out early reader books. Don't get me wrong - we are a book loving family (we could use our own library)! They both just enjoyed longer, more involved stories. It seems like once we brought out the easier books and declared they were readers, they caught on pretty quickly. They are both highly verbal too.

Anyway - I just wanted to say I totally know where you're coming from. My son actually seemed behind some of the other kids in his kindergarten class that had attended more intense preschool programs. By the end of kindergarten, we had serious problems with getting enough for him to do.

I tuned into a webinar with Deborah Ruf t'other day and she made a statement that gifted non-readers almost always had tracking or other sight/visual issues. I dont exactly remember at what age is was referring to specifically, but I do remember her giving an age where gifties were 'normally' reading by...

Miss 8 was not an early reader. While she did have some mild tracking issues and does wear glasses for reading now... there were a couple of things I think that delayed her reading:

* early readers are dull, dull, dull and she was much more interested in complex and rich chapter books (websites like starfall certainly took away some of the boredom while building her pre-reading skills)
* she was highly sensitive to her mild tracking issues and having a slight discomfort and distraction when she was reading was multiplied by 100 because of her sensitivities so reading wasnt a pleasant thing to do;
* she wasn't happy at kindy and we've now learned that she does not learn anything when she doesn't feel safe. All of her energy at 4 was going into surviving school.

But once she started, she took off. Literally. And now is galloping along...

jojo

Jojo, I believe she said that level 4/5 kids were reading well above (5+ years?) grade level by the time they entered K unless there were tracking issues or dyslexia. (Plz don't quote me. I was interrupted a lot during the webinar so might be off with my facts) I actually started the dyslexia post because of this very issue with my DS7. I never considered there to be a prob until recently. DS7 read at 2 and 3 then stopped in preschool and K. Then after we pulled him from ps in 1st he started reading and really took off until school started again this fall. He said it is too much work to read. When I asked him what the letters on the page were doing, he started in on this elaborate creative spiel about what certain combos of letters do. For example 2 oo's next to each other look the infinity sign, and sometimes the p hanging over a b looks like a snowman and these over here look like rockets. No wonder he can't read. There are too many creative images bouncing around.

My 5yo son, who is also in K and has also been tested (149 on the WPPSI) is likewise taking an interesting path towards reading. I don't know exactly what lies ahead for him. I think I've just decided that it remains to be seen what will unfold. I told his K teacher at his conference last week (he is in a gifted charter school) that he is a "complicated" child. She agreed. That's about all I can say. For some reason, which I can't figure out, my son has decided that reading is just not something he cares about. He resists reading both at home and at school. His teacher seems unconcerned. She told me (she has taught gifted kids for 10 years) that many of them are very strongwilled and must be personally motivated before they will do something. My son is not personally motivated where reading is concerned. For one thing, I read to him all the time, and the books that I read to him are things that he wants to read. The little early reader books are not the least bit interesting to him. We were actually talking about it today, because I keep trying to find books at the library (early reader style) that appeal to him. He asked me, "Why do you keep trying to force me to read?" I told him, "When I was little, I read all the time, and I want you to enjoy it too." He said, "You liked reading, but I don't. What I like to do is origami and legos." (This is true, he is absolutely obsessed with origami and can do some very complex creations that I can't even follow. He is also a lego master, something that I was never into as a child). Basically, I think my child is highy visual-spatial, but not visual (in a "photographic memory" sense). My father is a brilliant architect who failed fourth grade because he couldn't read. It's possible that my son might have something going on for him visually, but it is not severe enough to warrant any special ed concern yet. We have had his vision tested, and it came out normal. His fine motor skills and writing are above grade level, although he resists writing as well (his teacher showed us a writing sample that she said was outstanding, although he won't write AT ALL at home). I really don't know if any of this helps, but I would just say that with these kids you have to be patient. I know how hard it is, as I am not a patient person myself!

I just overheard the my dd's first grade teacher talk to another parent. She was reassuring this parent that she usually has 3/4 kids who are not reading well at the beginning of 1st. This is in a gifted school (top 3% FSIQ). There are kids in the classroom reading BOB books.

I don't know when you "should" worry about not reading, but I would think that before 6 and in K, it is still very normal. I did think (for other reasons) that my DD might have dyslexia when she was 4.

I found this very informative, it talks about dyslexia in gifted kiddos. http://mislabeledchild.com/html/Library/DyslexiaReading/Stealth_dyslexia.htm

You make a good point here - but I think like many parents, we see our GT kid do amazing things but also some really "duh" things, and we think, "Is she really gifted????"

Example: When DD5 was a baby, we saw lots of evidence of high ability - walking at 8.5 months, unbelievable receptive language, etc. However, she never did figure out how to do something as simple as tipping the sippy cup UP to get the liquid out. She kept trying to suck it like a bottle or a straw (which we showed her how to use at 6 months). We joked all the time that she'd be in middle school asking the teacher to tip her milk carton up for her! :-)

Then, at around age 2, she would start substituting her own ideas and feelings for dialogue in favorite books (Example: There is a line in "The Paper Bag Princess" (a GREAT book, by the way!) that goes something like, "Well, a princess! I love to eat princesses, but I have already eaten a whole castle today. I am a very busy dragon. Come back tomorrow!" And one day when my kid was upset at something I did, she says, "I love to eat mommies, but I have already eaten a whole house today. I am a very busy *insert her own name*. Come back tomorrow!" *slams door* So we figure this type of thing is pretty unusual for such a little kid - stuff like this is what led to getting her tested in the first place. And even though the test score was relatively high, not reading by age 5 has caused us to rethink it somewhat. We go back and forth a lot!

I do work with older gifted kids, but my only experience with little ones is having my own - so I'm passing through new territory here! :-)