Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Interesting quote from ds6... (ADHD?)

We've wondered if ds6 has ADHD due to difficulty paying attention in the classroom. He's also extrememly active. We recently pulled him from a private school, and I'm homeschooling because we thought he was just bored. I did my research, discussed it with the psychologist who did our gifted testing, and noted the similarities in the characteristics between ADHD and gifted students who are unchallenged. Very similar, right? So, I thought I'd work with him at home and see how the behaviors changed, if at all. He's learning a lot more, and he's very interested in what we are doing (pays attention pretty well), but he's in constant motion, stands rather than sits, lays down on the floor...you get the picture. So, now I'm thinking, I know he's gifted, but maybe he also has ADHD. He's definitely not bored when we're working at home. I asked him last night about why he thinks he's always moving, and here's what he said, "If I am still for just a second it feels like I've been still for a long time. I have to move my muscles or else they'll get stiff like when you sit in one position for too long. I can actually listen better if I'm moving. Otherwise, it feels like I'm trying to do two things at one time, like trying to pat your head and rub your belly. If I'm thinking about being still, it's hard to listen to the other things you are saying." I thought that was pretty insightful; I'm no expert on ADHD, but I was wondering if anyone here has any opinions or could share their experience. Thank you.

DS7 thinks better when in motion, too. Frankly, he started moving in utero and has never stopped. (Seriously, it was like having a roller coaster running inside me! *lol*)

During DS's IQ/achievement testing this past summer, the psychologist noted that he frequently was more comfortable answering while walking around. She (the psych) said it did not mean he has ADHD. She also said that she thinks it's unfortunate that teachers force kids to be still in class at this age. She said that some kids just NEED that movement when they're young, and that they end up using more brain power to keep still than they do to learn. Apparently, most people grow out of it, although some still need to have some kind of outlet (e.g., bouncing their legs).

FYI -- I notice that the only time DS is really still is when he's completely engaged in a book. Other than that, it's pacing, sitting upside down on the couch, climbing on the back of a chair, climbing on me... *lol* You get the idea.

Hope this helps.

Hi JenSMP, I think every time I read your posts you are spying on my DS7. LOL

I was just reading about this last night in "The Mislabeled Child" by DRs Eide. Yes this is my Bible. They talk about selective attention on page 208 and 209 as well as sustained attention on p.209. Also in the gifted section starting on p.431 they address this. Reading through it is very, very reassuring. We were told that our DS7 does not have ADHD though he mimics the signs. We were told he has SPD but in the book, they say that "Gifted Children also often are hightly sensitive to environmental, internal, and emotional stimuli and may become overwhelmed by intense or prolonged sensory input." (TMC pg.436) I'm pretty sure that is what our SPD dx states. So does he have SPD, ADHD, or just truly a normal/average Gifted child?????

hkc - I'll have to pick up that book. Interesting. Although our DS5 was never diagnosed with ADHD or anything similar, I can see how someone might mistake some of his behaviors/reactions as something other than gifted.

Not so much now, but when he was 3 and 4, he would get so excited about learning something new that he would run the length of the house and back. Now, he does similar running and jumping around when he's listening to books. This irritates me sometimes, and I quiz him to make sure he's listening, and he can usually repeat verbatim what I read. I think he just needs to be active sometimes.

And JenSMP - what incredible self-awareness your DS has to be able to explain that!

If ADHD had been such a popular "diagnosis" back when I was in school, I certainly would have been placed on a Ritalin drip.
(Funny/sadly, though, my "symptoms" were practically non-existent in any of my challenging classes. Hmmm.)

To this day, I drive my family nuts because I have such difficulty just sitting still. My DS is quite similar, and I suspect that he, like me, has a bad case of PBLS.

So far, he's much steadier at school than I was, so I've not worried about the school sending home suggestive ADD/AHDH literature. And, thankfully, his PBLS hasn't been too troublesome at school.

PBLS=Perpetually Bouncing Legs Syndrome

Our son was also diagnosed with SPD!!! LOL We took him to therapy for it, and finally we felt like it was a waste of time. No offense to anyone who has benefited from that therapy! I'm a speech therapist myself and work very closely with occupational therapy. This is just one area where I'm skeptical unless it's severe. Like our pediatrician said, "of course he has mild sensory processing disorder, that's what's called being a 4, 5, & 6 year old!"

Thanks everyone. I'd just hate to overlook some strategy or tretment that my son needs. I don't want to be that parent that sticks my head in the sand, however if he's learning, what differences does it make? What good does it do to add the label?

I agree, Dandy, ds's dad and I both would have been diagnosed with ADHD if it were a common diagnosis back then. I couldn't shut up or sit still, and dh was in another world all the time (bored!). Interestingly, dh was not challenged as a child or teen, and by the time he was ready for college he was convinced that that's what other people did. He didn't have any confidence in his abilities. He didn't even know how bright he was. He met my family who encouraged him to go to college where he was truly challenged. He flourished and eventually got his PhD. He was shocked at how much new information he could absorb at one time. He was like a sponge and couln't learn enough. Read it once, know it forever. Hear it once, know it forever. See it once, it's committed to memory. I'm not like that, but I was definitely not challenged, and by the time I got to college, I didn't know how to study and work at learning. I had to figure that out very late in life. I'm so happy my son is getting the opportunity to be challenged while it's still early. Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I'm going to try not to worry about this for now. As long as ds is leanrning, I'm happy. And he's very happy!

This is my brother to a T. He would be sitting at the table with us bouncing his legs, tapping his fingers, whatever, totally absorbed in some thoughts of his own while the rest of us had a conversation. Every once in a while he'd chime in with a remark about a topic we had discussed days ago. We would all look at him like he was from another planet. LOL My dad always said he had been hit one too many times in the head in football. Now of course I see things a little differently.

LOL, I agree. There are instances when it is severe definitely...but I work with 4 and 5 year olds all day in a school and we use sensory stuff with kids all the time because they need it. Almost everyone has some sensory issues and can benefit. If the movement is really a big problem them get a basket of those items that are good for active kids in general. Like those little twisty things you can play with....called "tangles" I think. And other things like that. I have a basket of these items in my office. Some kids (and adults) just focus better when moving.

It could be ADHD or maybe not. I am not a fan of labelling unless it is going to help with treatment and services. If he is just moving a lot and still able to focus and concentrate and you are willing to homeschool then I don't see the big issue. If he is not growing out of it as he gets older and it is becoming a problem then that is different and you can pursue it. His description is incredible. I have never heard a child describe something like that. I have had some adults with ADHD describe a similar feeling...but usually included with it is the difficulty focusing and paying attention and having to work really hard at it, and having a million thoughts in there head and being unable to sort it out. that is different than his description.

This is where we are now. However, when ds was in school, it was a disruption. With homeschooling, it's not really as issue. I'm thinking of enrolling ds in some classes at a community school (to supplement hs), so we'll see how it goes there! Thanks again to all!

Exactly! So many times I think parents are encouraged to seek ADHD treatment so that their kids will act more like the norm. But if he's happy and learning, why mess with things? Personally, I'd love to have all that bouncy energy right now!

LOL

The most attractive boy in my High School had PBLS too. OK, so maybe there wasn't universal agreement that he was the most attractive, and it was just IMHO.

We called it 'ants in pants' or to use the 'Latin' and make it an official medical diagnosis: Antceous Pantceous.

Sounds like Motor OverExcitability to me. Not nescessarily a sign of a bad match between difficulty of material and readiness level, although it's probably worth a try to ramp up the level of what you are teaching just to see what would happen...
Also,I speak from experience, with fast processing speed, every moment does seem very long.

Great Thread!
Grinity

My ds7 is also very bouncy. We used to call him Tigger. I started homeschooling him this year. He couldn't sit still. So a few of my friends told me to get him an exercise ball to sit on. One of my friends is an OT and she treats kids with SPD. Both the psychologist who did IQ testing on him and my friend who is an OT said ds does not have ADHD.

I bought him a small exercise ball. I let him play with it and let the novelty wears off a little bit. After a while, DS can sit on the ball and focus better than without a ball. I don't mean that he just sits on it. He actually kind of rolls on it and bounces on it a little bit. He falls off a few time, but he maintains his focus better. I also change him to different positions in homeschooling. Sometimes he sits on the ball, sometimes he stands up and walk around, sometime his tummy leans on the ball etc.

I was told that some schools in Europe are letting boys to sit on exercise balls. Some gifted schools in US do not require kids to sit on chairs.

When Tigger was tested he ended up sitting on the arm of the chair and I don't mean a lounge chair - the skinning office type!

His psych said the constant need to move, fidget, kneel, swing, bounce etc is called a need for 'proprioceptive input' - the way I understand it the brain needs to feel the motion in order for him to concentrate effectively. At school he has a 'move n sit' cushion which is designed to help him sit at his desk but still experience movement but he generally still ends up standing, kneeling, moving around etc to do his work. Mat time is especially difficult for him but his teacher is very aware and chucks him a squishy ball to fidget with to help keep him on track.

Not ADHD just the brain needing to be fed all the time! If you google proprioceptive input you'll get the proper science on it.

Thanks everyone! I re-read this today, and I'm reassured once again. I do have a question though. If ds begins to lose focus (or interest?) in what we are doing, should I continue to try to make him focus on what we are doing? Or, should I move on to something else and come back to it? I don't want him to learn that he can just switch gears every time something doesn't interest him or if he gets bored. But, if he's not paying attention, he's not learning. He'll say, "Mom, I'm sorry, I was kind of in my own world. I really didn't hear you. I thought I should tell the truth." It cracks me up and ticks me off every time he does it, but it usually makes me aware that I've gone on and on about something a bit too much. I guess what I'm asking is if it's a good idea to get in the habit learning in only small bursts rather than a sustained lesson on one topic. I don't want him to get where homeschooling is the only environment in which he can funtion.

What happens if you keep a child at a practice or lesson longer than he can concentrate, which in kid terms means beyond his wanting to be there? When a student is unable to focus . . . for five minutes but you keep him there for thirty minutes, you have let him practice how not to concentrate for twenty five minutes. If day after day this happens, it is no wonder that children have such poor concentration. It is in this all-too-common situation that the first seeds of resistance to practice are planted. We often see interest in learning go downhill very fast. -Jeanne Luedke (Parent Education Newsletter #3, March 1998)

This was part of a newsletter given to us by our Suzuki piano teacher that reinforces the Suzuki method. However, I think it holds true to schoolwork, etc. If I see DS getting distracted or his interest is slipping, I do try to re-engage him once or twice. If that doesn't work, we move on to the next thing and return to that topic later in the day. Yet another luxury of HS!

With that said, I know his concentration is better in the morning so we do the hardest/most boring things when he is at his best. I try to eliminate as many distractions as possible during work time as well. If he does lose interest and we have to temporarily abandon the work, I always return to it within a very short timeframe. I never want him to get the impression that this behavior is an escape route. Sometimes it is as simple as taking a quick stretching break or a snack break and he'll be ready to work again.

Finally, I try to stop/wrap-up his lessons while he is still totally engaged and interested. Then, not only is he is eager to continue working on that specific subject the next day but he also is in a positive mood going onto the next subject. This seems to improve his concentration too.

Thanks, sittin pretty. Very helpful! It seems logical to me to read the cues and maximize learning based on that, but again I just don't want to give him an "escape route" as you say. I will try your techniques. I think I'm a little guilty of stretching our lessons a little longer than I should. I will try wrapping them up when he's still into what we are doing instead of pushing the limits of his concentration. When something seems to be working, I have a tendency to keep going. I have been setting a silent timer for specific subjects so that I know when to stop and so ds understands there is an end in sight, and I've noticed that he's usually surprised that the session is over. But, I have to admit, I sometimes secretly add time if I think it's going well! Terrible, huh? If he asks to continue, I sometimes will do that as well. I have to get past drawing a line in the sand and "forcing" ds to continue with something that isn't working. I have to remember that this is a positive perk to homeschooling and be glad we have the luxury of breaks and split lessons. Ds demonstrates some ADHD behaviors, and knowing when to say when is probably best for him. I needed some reassurance, so thank you very much!