Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy ARRGH! Ready to pull my hair out with ds's school

So ... we had our meeting to discuss ds5's MAP results at his public school.

On the Math I section, he scored in the 98th percentile. On the Math II section, he scored in the 76th percentile. Long story short, they're not going to do *anything* for him beyond extra worksheets in his K class.

I have several issues with this meeting.

First of all, ds's computation skills were off the charts. The principal suggested several times that we do worksheets and workbooks with him at home and that's why he did so well on this part. I was stunned, to say the least. We don't *do* workbooks at our house. Benjamin's just not interested (I know there are many GT kids who are, but ds is not one of them). She thinks we're hothousing him! If there is anything farther from a hothousing parent, it's me. And that's what they think we are. Unbelievable.

My other issue with the MAP test is that it doesn't cover a child's *ability* to learn, but only tests knowledge they already have. Ds is advanced in math, but not by that much; we have never really pushed it. We do all sorts of mathy things as they come up -- he understands fraction and percentages and multiplication etc, if you ask him verbally. But we've never made it a point to teach things overtly that aren't intuitive, like the written division signs or how a fraction looks written down. Or, for example, odds and evens -- because really, who does that with a 5yo unless they are following a curriculum, or the child asks about it?

So in my view, there are topics covered in the MAP that he could pick up in about 10 minutes, but they just come out as "wrong" on the test -- no "wrong but he already understands the concept, just asked a different way." Which is fine -- I know it is just a test used to gauge progress over time. But geez -- to look at the kid's private IQ and achievement scores and not do *anything*??

I guess I'm just a little confused about what they plan to actually *teach* him in K for the rest of the year. I have to discuss with ex-h and possibly compose a letter to that effect: If he's going to be in K for the rest of the year with no pull-outs, then what exactly do you plan to teach him?

So here's the end of my vent, and the beginning of my questions. We're entirely sure that K is not meeting his academic needs -- nor will first grade, especially if he starts and finishes in first grade next year. Socially he's right on par and does fine in a variety of situations; I've no doubt he'd take right to first grade. His Iowa Acceleration score turns out around 54 when I do it on my own -- in the "good candidate for skip" range. I know the school could possibly answer some questions differently than I do, but not more than two or three. Most of the questions are very fact-based. And lately the kid's been wistfully saying, "I wish I could be in second grade." To my knowledge, no one's discussed a possible skip around him because we don't want to get his hopes up!

What do I do? Now that the school has flatly refused to do anything for him with the data they have, where does that leave us? Do we request that they do the Iowa Scale with him (they do use it at the school, the principal happened to mention) and just request a full skip, since they're not willing to do even single-subject acceleration? Do we just start looking at other schooling options, since they clearly have little to no experience with PG kids?

Ugh. I feel like the parent making excuses for my kid's underachievement -- because I am! I really don't feel like this was a good assessment of ds's abilities. Please, give me your btdt experiences! Or am I really the "bright kid but not ridiculously so" parent, which the school thinks I am?

Mia, I am so sorry this has happened. I have a 2E and I can definitely feel your pain about not being heard. It is extremely frustrating!!!!! You know your child and you know what he is capable of and all they see is a score - very upsetting I know. I don't have any wonderful advice to offer but I just wanted to give you my support. ((((hugs)))

Hi Mia,

My daughter refused to attend K because she was bored. I was able to take her about a week and then had to take her out. I worked with John Hopkins Distance Education for Math at home.

Are there any schools for the gifted where you live? That ended up being the only option for us.

Is homeschooling an option? If it is, you are the best teacher your child can have at this age, specially if he is in a school where his gifts are overlooked.

His Math I MAP score was 184; his math II MAP score was 166. According to them, Math I is more computation and Math II is more reasoning. They want his Math II score to be at 180 before they'll pull him for first-grade math. The MAP test was the Map for Primary Grades -- K level.

His WIAT math reasoning score was 146 (99.9 percentile) and his math composite score was 150 (>99.9 percentile). Interestingly, his math operations score was lower on that test, at a 135 (99 percentile).

Now that I've thought about it some more, though, his MAP scores were all over the place -- one of his 'score ranges' was 146-168, and his compuation was in the 220s. I don't have the results sitting in front of me; I have to get a copy tomorrow. But doesn't that make sense for a child who doesn't have any "formal" math training? And he took 20 full minutes to do each section ... doesn't that mean the computer was having difficulty narrowing down where he actually is?

The other thing is, by the time he finished, he'd been sitting in front of a computer, with head phones on, for 40 minutes. That's a long time when you're 5 and you don't really care ...

We also, according to the principal, cannot get his full report until they have a batch to send in -- she said we couldn't get it until the rest of the Kers took the test in January. Does anyone know if that's true?

LOL, Dottie -- that's exactly what we're going to have to do now, teach to the test. I can't believe I'm even saying it! I've seen a lot of people have success with ALEKS online, so I may look into that. I've no doubt that once he begins formal instruction (which, apparently, we'll be doing at home), his percentiles will take off. The MAP is self-correcting, so it'll go to whatever level it needs to. The interesting thing is that the test sections usually take only 10-15 minutes each, and Benjy took 20 minutes on both. Hmm.

Yes, I do want to weep -- that plan would be *perfect*, and the school would *never* do it. Sigh.

On to research more options, including private schools ... I'm not willing to have him sit around picking his nose in the primary grades, kwim? Sadly, the gifted school here is about 45 minutes away and costs an arm and a leg. We were thinking about moving next year ... hmm.

Hi Mia,
We were also "carful to avoid hothousing" and it blew up in our faces in exactly the same manner. LOL! We didn't want to be responsible for his future bordom! I am glad you are able to "wake up and smell the coffee" at this early stage, and let's face it, your son is going to need to do some work at home in order to not fall behind in the "learn how to learn" catagory.

I think the popularity of full grade skips is due to the various difficulties with subject acceleration, but if your school will offer the subject acceleration after a little 'teaching to the test' when it is worth jumping through the hoops, if you can live with the uncertianty of year to year planning that comes with the greater flexibility of subject accelerations.

If it helps, I now think of hothousing as a communication issue. When one is trying to communicate a difficult concept (Ruf Level III and up kids are a difficult concept) to a person who has a differnt set of mental images, it helps to be concrete whenever possible. What's the concrete picture of a child who need an accomidation?

Well behaved, compliant, can rapidly do every skill that will be taught in that grade, and the next one. I can't really modify my son's personality, but maybe some hothousing would have helped communicate the situation in a way the school could understand. So for all those parent's of Level III kids who will need to go to school, pull out those math books and hothouse away. You have my permission.

Trinty

Mia,
Does your school or district have a parent group for gifted? Is there a gifted coordinator at your school or district level? Do you know any parents that have older children identified and have been throught the system.
You can move, homeschool, private school. Those are all great options.
If your principal is managing you, and I think you are right that the numbers show how intelligent your child is and that you have not been hothousing, you might be able outmanuever him/her with a little help.
Example, our district actually has a set policy about skipping and the principal has to follow the procedure. But if you don't know what the procedure is, he's not going to volunteer that information.

Maybe you can find out if others have approached the skipping subject with that principal and what his/her reaction was.

Good luck

What is hothousing?

Kcab has done a good job of explaining hothousing. I'd like to go one step further and add that the term came from the practice of growing hothouse flowers, which are very meticulously trained and groomed to have the most desirable appearance. There are parents who treat their children this way, overfocusing on academic skills from babyhood. My experience with gifted kids is that most are dragging their parents along for a wild ride, and that a very small percentage are actively pushed by their parents. Those few "pushy" parents cast suspicion on all of us. It's a bummer.

Mia-
I think you have a right to be angry. I hope you can channel that into persistence in your advocacy efforts. Good luck!

Dottie: I will certainly ask about the tests normed against the first graders -- that's a great idea. Thank you. I'm quite curious about where that 98 percentile falls among first graders, now that you bring it up.

Incogneato: No gifted parent groups that I know of, though I've been in contact with another little boy's mother from B's class. The gifted coordinators for both the school and the district told us that the GT program starts in second grade -- no exceptions -- and wouldn't speak with us because, you know, her hands are tied. But I will definitely look into a district policy for skipping. As I said, they use the Iowa Acceleration Scale -- I wonder if they'd follow that, if we asked them to do one with B? Somehow I doubt it. :P

Kcab: They did show us the report broken down into subtests, so we know how he did where. I don't have a copy yet, but will tomorrow, so then I'll be able to look at it in more depth.


This is so interesting to me. They teach to the test! Oh, I love schools ... It's like hot-housing for standardized tests!