Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion MDC & gifted hostility

(I hope this post is not against the user agreement. I did check the FAQs, and it seemed like it would be okay.)

I know I am not the only one here who has been following/involved in the drama over on mothering.com. I was deeply saddened at all of the negativity directed toward those of us who post on the gifted forum there, and I am very disappointed that they have now eliminated our ability to discuss it altogether.

I don't want to rehash any of the discussion that has gone on over there, but I am just struck because I think this is the first time I have really experienced hostility just because of the label "gifted." I wonder why this happens, and what we can do about it (besides shutting ourselves back into the closets from which we've reluctantly emerged).

Any thoughts?

I have been a member over there for years and have mostly been a lurker in that forum. IMO, I prefer to post and share here. I will most likely just delete my link to that forum. I don't think that we should do anything---there are a lot of people who will always think that the term "gifted" is elite and treat those who use it negatively. I think that's the best part about this community--Gifted is actually in the title of the forums. If someone doesn't like the term then they just don't post here.

I didn't catch that anyone even alluded to this forum over on MDC although I did post one or two responses on the long thread in Q&S before it got locked. My user name is different over there, though, so you might not recognize me .

You're not hard to figure out. No, I don't think anyone there mentioned this forum.

I guess I am just very disappointed because a lot of people (including moderators) have been expressing their feelings that those of us who post in the gifted forum over there are trying to separate ourselves from the rest of MDC, that we incorrectly think other people cannot relate to our problems, that we think we are better than others, etc., etc. I mean, I know that there are crazy people out there, and I know to take those crazy comments with a grain of salt. But these are intelligent, thoughtful women who are committed to inclusive, open discussion. Women who, as members of the attachment parenting movement, ought to know what it feels like to be marginalized.

I just feel like if people like that can't accept the fact that we exist without having their feelings hurt or accusing us of being elitist, it's hopeless.

So I guess I am hoping there is some way to overcome this. I don't want to isolate myself away from the non-gifted world. But I also really dislike the idea of going to a place that is all-inclusive except for gifted issues.

I've mentioned this line over a dozen times... but it always seems to fit. In the Aug something 2007 issue of Time (maybe newsweek) - cover story on GT and obviously lots from the Davidsons... The author makes the following observation... we all don't think if we put out a hoop and practice hours on end that we will ever be Michael Jordon but when it comes to intellect and learning... we as a society are threatened and uncomfortable with the idea that we all aren't equal.

I am seriously considering a return to schooling myself for a doctorate in rhetoric. While it will have to fit the program/professors... I would LOVE to continue the research out their about our anti-intellectual culture. Specifically, if you even collect communications from schools and libraries how little there is in the way of praise for real accomplishments. The number of anti going back to school messages I've found this past week - even one in a public library one pager.

In the end, it isn't hopeless - I don't think much has changed in terms of gt dynamics in the last 30 years. one can only hope that a race for new energy or climate protection will be our sputnik (sp) and herald in a new time of rejoicing in another intellect. Until then, stay here. Who cares if new diapers make it possible for people not to potty train until their kids are 8 ;-)

That's a good point but I guess you won't be able to share it as the whole board now seems to be locked down there.

I figure the sentiment that gifted needs are elitist is always going to be there on MDC. It has always been there. I thought a peace had been reached with the separate forum but I should have known it would resurface again.

While stand alone boards like this are nice, I also recognize that many people will first reach out within a community they are already a part of. MDC has a lot of bright interesting parents and I hate to see the gifted forum go or be mutilated to the point where it no longer can function as a community.

Tolerance is only skin deep. Those who are different in fundamental ways are used as whipping boys to build group unity.

Its a deep part of many psyches. I think its built in to much of the gene pool.

Even in intellectually based cultures, such as medicine, the researcher or practitioner who finds a new and better way is frequently denigrated if not ostracized. Its a combination of individual rigidity, group reinforcement, and ostracism.

The treatment treatment of Ignaz Semmelwies is an excellent example.

I see the same kind of lockstep thinking in many of the clients I work for - the adherence to an idea when demonstrably better methods are available.

Another example is the Stanford Prison Experiment .

Gifties need to understand human individual and group dynamics in order to protect themselves. Just like one would not want to walk around at dark in certain areas, there are certain cultures one does not walk around in with your brain hanging out, either.

I've also been following the events over on MDC. It makes me very sad. I find it particularly sad that one poster who is very new to MDC seems to have a vendetta against the parents who post in the gifted-child forum there. I had to stop looking because the hostility from that one poster in particular and from the moderators there was making me feel ill.

I really don't understand why people who don't need the gifted-child forum there are so angry about it. I don't use many of the groups there, but I would never dream of questioning their right to exist.

In a way, it reminds me of our current national uproar over healthcare. The loudest--and quite often, the most irrational--voices drown out all of the logical, thoughtful comments from people on either side of the issue.

That kind of anger just makes me ill, whatever the context. I keep hoping to grow a thicker skin, but I never seem to quite be able to do so, and I'm always surprised anew when it erupts. The giftedness issues at MDC just hit particularly close to home for me.

In the past there has been quite a bit of the theme of "I was in the gifted program and it was a joke and it just made me feel like a freak other kids hated" sort of posts. It is like the entire validity of the idea and treatment of giftedness is summed up in what happened in somebody's probably not very well designed pullout program in 1980. This sort of thing has made me wonder if in some places and at some times actually more resentment about giftedness has resulted from programs that are mostly addressing upper middle class bright kids for special treatment.

Have you ever read The Trouble with Physics (Lee Smolin)? It's really two books in one. Most of the book is a great discussion about the current state of theoretical physics (TP). He discusses the dominance of string theory and the near-exclusion of other approaches in TP. He argues that progress in TP is being retarded by an unwillingness to allow different approaches.

The last 4-5 chapters are all about sociology and how it contributes to the problems described in the first part of the book. He also touches on the fact that these problems plague many other fields.

One of his major points is that intelligent, creative people face huge obstacles because:

1. Young researchers are pushed to follow the programs of senior researchers and are discouraged from pursuing their own ideas;

2. If you want to get an academic job in TP, see point number 1 for the correct course of action;

3. If you want to get a grant in TP, see point number 1 for the correct course of action;

4. If you want to get tenure in TP, see point number 1 for the correct course of action.

He talks about herd behavior and how it's having a serious negative impact on progress in his field. Simply put: individuals complain about the state of things in the field, but everyone seems to be powerless in the face of the group.

One of his key points is that there are two kinds of scientist: the one who has creative, new ideas (a seer), and the one who's less creative but more technically adept and can work through the details of the new ideas and push them forward (the master craftsman). He argues that both types are needed but only the latter ones are tolerated now (well, in 2007 when the book was published).

Seems OT, but I think the hostility to the gifted forum on MDC might be related to this idea. I also think that people are mostly only allowed to be different if their differentness is more-or-less the same as everyone else's, if you see what I mean.



Val