Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    1 members (Val), 215 guests, and 21 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Gingtto, SusanRoth
    11,429 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 2 1 2
    #48744 06/04/09 09:53 AM
    Joined: Mar 2008
    Posts: 435
    B
    Belle Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Mar 2008
    Posts: 435
    I have seen some past posts that have kind of touched on this issue.....a few weeks ago, we finally got a solid look at my DS6. We found a psychologist in another city who did the Woodcock Johnson and the RIAS. He was in the 99.9% on the RIAS and the Woodcock J showed that he was 2 grade levels ahead of K in both reading and math but with his Dyspraxia is on grade level(K)for writing. The psychologist told us that her recommendations were to accelerate him and place him in a full time gifted program (which of course does not exsist in our county and the reason why we are attempting to homeschool this year).
    Anyways - she pointed something interesting out to us....she shared in her opinion that my little guy wasn't dealing with SPD, instead she said he was just a Highly Gifted kid with OE issues. She said that it seems that a lot of HG kids get labeled with SPD who really just have Over-Excitability issues.
    How in the world can you tell - who do you go to comfirm this? We have always been on the edge about the SPD diagnosis when he was about 3.5- his doctor said he seemed to fit some of the description and he sent us to an OT who did some assessments and said that he had SPD - he seemed to fit some of the characterisitcs but not completely - it just was the closest explanation to what we were seeing.
    But over the past year, we have been waffling with this because after reading so much info about OE's - this seems to fit him to an exact T instead of SPD and with learning where he is after the assessments last month, it helped us see that he really is as bright as everyone keeps saying he is.
    Would love any opinions!

    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 921
    J
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    J
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 921
    I am wondering the same thing. Some of the posts around here have me thinkin' SPD instead of OE's.

    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 128
    G
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 128
    My DS6 has SPD. He was diagnosed with AD/HD but I can see now that the diagnosis was totally and completely wrong and he's currently undergoing OT based on Brain Gym. Anyhoo, what I'm beginning to believe is that SPD = OE. Same thing; different name. In fact, the head of the private OT gym that we're going to has stated about 8 times that ALL of the kids coming through there are brilliant. She says that she doesn't know why it's so but she said, "I truly believe that the kids in here [with the underdeveloped pons and midbrains] are the ones who are going to change the world."

    I've noticed that there's a theme among the kids with early development. For instance, my son was waaaaay ahead on the development scale. It was bizarre to see such a little baby doing the things that he could do. The flip side was that his cortex was actually preventing him from allowing his lower brain to develop. Why crawl when I can hold two things while bipedal? Why cry when I can my bizarrely advanced fine motor skills to unhook my mother's bra? And, my personal favorite, Why sleep when I have so much to learn? LOL!

    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 73
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 73
    Can I ask specifically which characteristics the OT based her diagnosis on and how they overlap with OEs?

    I'm relatively new to this forum and after reading so much about SPD here, I did online research and thought as you had that some of it fit, but not completely. Having known about OE's longer, I assumed these characteristics were OE's and/or hypersensitivities resulting from our son's premature birth. So, I'd love more specific info if you're willing to share/write.


    Benny
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 128
    G
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 128
    I'm sorry, are you asking me or Belle?

    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 73
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 73
    Oh sorry. My question was more for Belle.


    Benny
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    I am hoping to find answers to this question soon after my son is tested and we get to talk to a neuropsychologist/professor who I would assume would very knowledgeable about this.

    I am not sure about this, but I always thought it was SPD if it was causing problems in every day life. I have always been highly sensitive/overexcitable in some ways and it didn't cause me to have any great difficulty, at least nothing that I couldn't work around. But my son pointed out something to me that really made me think about this.

    We were getting ready to go to his first private swimming lesson (45 minute drive and the lessons are $20 for a half-hour) and I realized that we would have just enough time to get there if I didn't have trouble finding the place, so I started getting nervous. I already had a headache and was moving a little slower than usual because of it. The television was on and my son asked if I heard what was just said on it and I said no because I was so focused on getting ready and I had a headache. He said, "Good, now go try to play that song (on the piano) I have been working on." The song was a challenging one and he had not played it well at all one day, but played it perfectly the next at his piano lesson. I had tried to make him continue practicing even though he told me he was tired and distracted. I knew that I would have had trouble with this because I would not have been able to tune out the headache pain and the worry about getting some place on time. He had found a way to really make me understand how his sensory issues affect his ability to do things consistently.

    I think the difference is that in his case, he deals with more pain than I do. In addition to the migraines, he gets muscle pain any time he does more than the usual amount of walking. Yesterday we went to the zoo and then a museum. He really enjoyed the museum but had to sit down to rest his legs because they hurt. His dad and I don't have this problem but I am sure if I did it would be similar to how I deal with headache pain. I think pain affects the way I take in sensory information. I have always known that it is best to not do things like paying bills when I have a migraine because I am more likely to make a mistake. I don't like to drive when I am in pain because I feel it takes my attention away from driving sometimes and I think even my reaction time might be a little different. Pain slows me down.



    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    Originally Posted by Belle
    How in the world can you tell - who do you go to comfirm this? We have always been on the edge about the SPD diagnosis when he was about 3.5- his doctor said he seemed to fit some of the description and he sent us to an OT who did some assessments and said that he had SPD - he seemed to fit some of the characterisitcs but not completely - it just was the closest explanation to what we were seeing.

    My son never seemed to fit all of the characteristics of SPD or motor dyspraxia. I just found an article about working memory in children with developmental coordination disorder and it mentioned some study that showed that children with DCD appear to be impaired in all four areas of memory function and this is definitely not true for my son. There is only a problem in motor memory. It is like there is a lag in his motor memory that is worse sometimes than others because he is highly sensitive or overexcitable or whatever, and this exacerbates the lag.

    I remember reading that kids with motor dyspraxia have trouble with sequencing and this was true for him when he learned dance routines. He could learn them, it just took longer than it did the other kids.

    But when he and I listened to a list of instructions on how to transfer video files from one cell phone to the new one we just bought using a bluetooth, he was the one who remembered all of the verbal instructions and was able to do the transfer without any difficulty. He is my technical translator. He remembers all of this technical stuff and explains it to me in terms I can understand. It is embarrassing sometimes. His adult sister calls him when she needs a walk through on how to do things on the computer that she hasn't done before and he tells her step by step while she is on speaker phone and he is simultaneously playing a video game. His friends call him for advice on getting to the next level on games and he gives step-by-step advice on that even though he hasn't played that particular game in a long time. He was always one of the fastest to memorize lines in his musical theater class, faster than the older kids. He could do mental math that I couldn't do. I think he had to have good working memory to solve simple algebra equations mentally without looking at the problem. I could give him the problem verbally while he simultaneously bounced on an exercise ball and played a game on his PS3 so there is a multi-tasking ability that I would think shouldn't be there if he has motor dyspraxia. He remembers things he read years ago or heard on the news. He and I spent over four hours in the car with my husband and another supervisor from his office and it seemed like any time there was a discussion about anything, he was able to add some interesting or relevant bit of information that he happened to know. I loved the look on the supervisor's face when she talked about some of the books she had read and mentioned that she would like to read Animal Farm and my son sounded more like a college student than an 11 year old kid when he gave a quick analysis of the book and then made a joke that sounded like something his dad would say. She told my husband the next day that she really enjoyed talking to him because he was such a good conversationalist but she thought it must be very difficult for him to find peers who would understand him because he would be talking way over the heads of kids. It is hard to think of this as a disorder or a learning disability when he learns and retains so much more than I do without even trying. It makes me feel like I have a learning disability but I usually made straight A's in school without having to study very much. I relied on my note-taking ability. He can't write fast so he relies on his memory. No matter how hard I try I can't talk the way my son does. On a written vocabulary test I could probably score as high as he does but I can't use all the words I know in my speech with such facility or make all the history and political and cultural references that he uses so easily or come up with jokes the way he does and that is another thing. Physically, his timing is a little off sometimes but verbally, his comic timing is perfect.

    For example, last night his dad made up some silly story about "cow tipping" and my son immediately said "Okay, and I guess you could use your "tip cow-culator" on your cell phone to "cow-culate" the amount of force necessary to "tip" the cow. The two of them do this all the time and it is almost like a verbal tennis game where the ball is missed if you can't immediately come back with something equally funny to say. My son is very good at this kind of "sport" but would never be good at a physical game of tennis.

    I also wonder how you can determine mental age for kids who seem so mentally above the rest but have difficulty in doing physical things. I always thought mental age was what determined IQ and that mental age had more to do with your level of comprehension and mental ability and not physical ability, yet I know that my son would score lower on any kind of test that required good visual motor integration and I think that would cause his IQ to be lower than it would be if he didn't have motor dyspraxia so I don't think an IQ score would accurately reflect his intellectual ability.

    Was your son tested all in one day? I think testing will be hard for my son because he is used to working for a while and taking breaks throughout the day. He is scheduled for 8 tests in one day and I don't know what all they will be testing. I continue to have more questions than I have answers.

    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 687
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 687
    In the end I wouldn't worry a lot about whether it is called SPD or OE or anxiety or whatever. I've learned valuable information from reading from all of those perspectives. I would call it whatever it takes to work on it and getting help. The biggest part of coping with any of these conditions is helping the child learn to identify their feelings and make appropriate choices to learn to feel better. It doesn't matter if you call it OE or SPD - it is a matter of the child learning to identify w is happening in the moment and to take actions to feel better (so feeling stressed jump on the trampoline not on your brother). In the beginning it takes parental direction but over the time a child can learn to do this stuff on their own.

    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 687
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 687
    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    I also wonder how you can determine mental age for kids who seem so mentally above the rest but have difficulty in doing physical things. I always thought mental age was what determined IQ and that mental age had more to do with your level of comprehension and mental ability and not physical ability, yet I know that my son would score lower on any kind of test that required good visual motor integration and I think that would cause his IQ to be lower than it would be if he didn't have motor dyspraxia so I don't think an IQ score would accurately reflect his intellectual ability.

    I really wouldn't conclude that as there are many kids with similar challenges who still test as having very high IQs. We find in our son's case physical challenges stand totally independent of cognitive growth. While often yes, disabilities can go hand and in hand obviously there are people with even very profound physical disabilities who are brilliant. We found a good evaluator was to use this information and look at in the context of the information we already have about the motor and visual disabilities.

    Page 1 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years
    by indigo - 04/30/24 12:27 AM
    NAGC Tip Sheets
    by indigo - 04/29/24 08:36 AM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by Wren - 04/29/24 03:43 AM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5