Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADHD, ODD and the Spectrum "Disorders"

Have you read much on Gifted Aspergers? Please take this in to consideration when considering aspergers. Much of the information out there is not geared toward gifted aspergers. It will make a difference. If you haven't already please read Giftedness and Asperger's Syndrome: A New Agenda for Education by Shelagh and James Gallagher. You can google the title. Pay particular attention to the tables listing differences between them. It also includes the Diagnosis Criteria for Asperger's Disorder. Your child would manifest two of the six in A, and at least one of six in B, you then need to be able to answer no to C,D,and E. Your child does not need "all" of them by a long shot.

From there you need to determine if you really need a diagnoses or just go with what treatment might be warranted for the existing symptoms. My oldest DD9 has gifted aspergers and the accompaning or coexisting ADD, mild to moderate ODD based on ACTers testing, and SID. We have used meds at the beginning and gave up, they helped in her opinion but not enough to warrant dealing with the side effects over time and we couldn't find the right dose to eliminate the side effects. I'm not ruling them out as a possibility in the future but not for now. We are using behavioral modification and working with the speech therapist on social skills and pragmatics, in particular with a new book out that is really good. It's a pictoral representation of appropriate social skills, many people have asked the name and I need to find out this week when I see her.

One of my DD6's is also "on the spectrum". We tried drugs with her and took her off as well. It can make for an interesting day at times, and we plan to test her in the next year to see where we are there. The school had made a big push to put her on meds. We are using Brain Ware Safari right now and seeing some progress with her attention and impulse control. You can find information on it on their website if you click on professionals and then on the left hand side click on behavioral impact. We purchased it through the homeschool buyers cooop for very little compared to their regualr prices.


Just so I understand completely, is the current diagnosis ADHD and OD?

Yes, this was ADHD and ODD. I still think he may have Asperger's - but its hard to tell. His "spark" and the peaceful happy look in his eye returns the minute he his home learning for a day or two with his dad. I work with him in the evenings. School seems to leave him totally depleted, not as happy, just hard to put in to words, but he is just different and at Christmas he was a totally different child after 10 days at home. The hyper comes and goes, and coffee definitely seems to affect it - calms him down. If other parnest havent' used just plain caffeine - whether from Mountain Dew (diet) or Dr. Pepper I hear now has the most (again diet - or you get a sugar spike) they may want to try it. Though I was also told that Aspartane affects *some* people's brain chemistry - so they you are stuck with Splenda Diet coke as an option I think!

I'm totally anti-drugs still and looking for alternatives. All the "side effects" under eye blinking thread alone have merely turned me off more!!

Thanks SO much for mentioning the book and summarising those tables. That may well help if he does need extra help, to stay in school or to return to school if we decide to home school for now. Plus, I just want to fully understand him of course. I also have many friends with Aspergers kids - who are very intelligent or have great gifts in art or something else - and often the parents are so concerned with just dealing with school and Aspergers and keeping the child in the special ed program - they don't even recognize, realise or care to deal with the giftedness aspect. It's of great concern to me and should be to us as a Nation / Globe I feel - that the US system anyway is separating out the 504 programs and Special Ed programs - with no accommodation for 2E. It ends up becoming in the parents' interest to go with Special Ed - and not even explore giftedness for fear of losing Special Ed. services or not gaining them to begin with. Imagine how much is being lost in potential. That's just plain wrong! So I will deifnitely share your resources with others I know. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I don't think you can ignore the gifted aspect and do justice to the child. My daughter does so much better when she is challenged academically than left to mumble along. We are continually evaluating to see when/if it would be in her best interest to pull her back out completely or move her further ahead in ELA. For now her partial enrollment with services is working. I think a big part of why it's working is because she is able to move ahead at her pace with her other subjects.

I love the book Genius Denied. I completely agree with the loss of potential that we are putting on some of our brightest kids. It's very sad.

My son (dx'd with nvld and Aspergers) must have special ed services because I have no choice. He is barely willing to access his education because he is so fixed on what he wants to do/his interests It is much more complicated with an aspie profile becuase the social impairment is an impediment along with the self-directed interests that preoccupy a child on the spectrum. It does not wax and wane. It is ingrained in them and is constant.

As far as I know, ADHD and ODD (the ODD I would refute as a diagnostic category) are not on the spectrum or considered to be by autism specialists in the field. ONe considered change is adding NVLD to the DSM and Aspergers as a social disorder seperate from the autism category.

btw: Professionals like to overuse the ODD because it is easier to understand and requires less of them. No gifted child should carry a diagnosis of ODD which is loaded with negative connotations!

Well, I agree on the ODD thing. I was horrified that they assigned to DS6 - but then - there's no denying he's obstinate, willful, unafriad if adults and defiant - and been that way for more than 6 months - which is their criteria. However, it does have very negative connotations compared to a gifted child acting out or not being afraid of adults.

I spoke to the Board Certified Chiropractic Neurologist yesterday - and challenged him on the whole "why did you say in your aritcle that ADHD falls on the same spectrum as Austism and Asperger's a lot of parents don't find that helpful". But apparently - that's the way its viewed officially by the neurologists he has trained with. It's not that they are saying they are the same condition though.

Of course - some people hate Chiropractors - so that's a different argument/discussion.

I'm curious to see how he treats DS6 and if the exercises they give him help strengthen the weaker areas of his brain causing the eye problems and possibly the ADHD. In the meantime, we'll see whether home school and challenge and maturity improve things too.