Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school I am drained...sooo drained.

My DS3 has the most amazing temper tantrums, truly amazing! For a while I tried time-out, ignoring etc to no avail. Then one day for some reason it struck me as funny. He threw himself down, started stomping his feet and screaming. I laid down on the floor right next to him and started doing the same thing. Asked him if I was doing it right? Did I need to yell louder? He stopped mid scream, jumped up to his feet like I'd grown an extra head, then curled up next to me, patted my arm and told me it was ok. Since that day, his tantrums have been very small and very infrequent. Still don't know why it worked, but it did!

Oneisenough, I could have written your post nearly word for word.

Luckily I do find myself laughing about it all some days.

This month is particularly hard because my DH is working 6 days a week, sometimes 7 with travel out of town sprinkled in. That makes for a very thread bare me.

I was chuckling, reading over these posts, thinking evolution has it all figured out. Just at the time toddlers are needing more independence, their bossy demands and mood swings allow us to want to cut those apron strings and get as far away from them as possible. LOL

You helped him to behold himself!!

Sometimes Mr W shrieks too much and I shriek with him. He laughs at me and stops it for the day.

I'd use this one with caution -- my ds6, even as a 4-year-old, would have been mortally offended that I wasn't taking him seriously! He really *feels* his emotions -- I can't put it in a clearer way than that. Even if it's a melt-down over a seemingly minor thing, he still meant it at the time.

However, the holding thing ... snowgirl, if your little one is stripping down and going outside in the cold, then yes, I think physical limits are appropriate. Occasionally, when ds-the-3-or-4 was having an all-out fit, holding him tightly was the only way to get him to settle; he'd have thrashed around and really hurt himself, and the physical boundaries helped him calm down once he realized he wasn't going to win. Yes, he'd yell and scream and thrash, and he was strong, but it was at least keeping him safe. And physical safety is the first thing kids need to know -- even if it makes him unhappy, even if he hates me (briefly) for doing it, my very first job as a parent is to keep his body safe.

We also have a "No means no" policy. Even if I realize later that whatever I said "no" to probably wasn't worth the fight, I don't break lines -- the answer is what it is, and no bargaining, whining or wheedling is going to change that. If there *is* a choice, I try to make that clear from the beginning and not say no! It's taken some training of me to remember not to say "maybe" if the answer will be no, and to say no only when I really mean it, so I can effectively enforce it.

I don't get angry very often, since that usually inflames the disagreement rather than diffusing it. I think I can count the number of times I've really raised my voice at him on one hand (and he deserved it!). I try to save raised voices for saftey issues (running into the street, etc.), because if there's a lot of yelling kids don't know when the yelling really matters. He needs to know that if I yell, I'm frightened for his safety or some equally important reason.

Bottom line is, I'm the parent, and there are some decisions I make for him. If he doesn't like them -- well, that's really too bad. That's not to say I make all decisions for him, or even most. But if it's a health or safety or values issue, then he just has to deal with it -- "talking back" repeatedly will get a time-out at his age. It's not appropriate if it's been made clear that there will be no discussion on the topic.

When he was smaller, he'd get redirected. If he was going after a plug, we'd move and find something more fun to do together, and he'd forget. If he was gunning for a cookie, I'd offer a different, healthy snack. If he wanted it, great! If not, oh well. I'm not having a toddler dictate to me what he will and will not have, when.

But there are battles that aren't worth fighting -- he'd stay up in bed reading until 9:30 or 10 pm as a 3yo and my parents thought I was nuts for letting him "stay up" past 8:30. That one wasn't worth a fight to me, and if he was quiet in his room, I didn't have a problem with it.

Really, I think it comes down to the parent deciding which limits are worth enforcing, and which aren't. Ds6 is a very polite, well-behaved child (in public ) and I think it comes from being fairly consistent with him at home.

I love the redirecting but sadly it doesn't work with my DD. She has a mind like an elephant. She never forgets a thing to the point of shocking. We can go somewhere and never go back for months and she will tell me something that lets me know she remembers what the store is for or where things are in the store. So redirecting her from a plug or some other unsafe thing just doesn't work for her. However, lucky for me she gets that it is dangerous and leaves the outlets alone. B/c if she didn't I would really have my hands full.

Have others experienced this with their toddlers? I am wondering if the memory and determination thing is part of gifted or just that she is weird. I still ponder if she has a picture perfect memory. She will tell us about things that happen back before she was 16 months old. Just out of the blue she brings something up and it isn't something we talk about.

Mia, I completely agree with everything you wrote there!

The limits especially are VITAL. I always say that if your "no" doesn't mean NO, then a child doesn't believe that your "Yes" means yes...or that your "I love you" is true either. I think that's why kids crave limits and consistency. It's about trusting the parent. They really do want "no" to mean no!

Just to emphasize the point, there are a couple of GT kids I know whose parents are utter pushovers. Nice people, but the kids run the show. It makes me crazy when they are at my house! And the fact is, the kids are much better behaved after an aftenoon with me because I don't put up with it. It tells me that their behavior is all about lack of limits. At my house, they know the limits, and they act much better than they do around their parents.

Your post also reminded me of something else that really worked for us on a tantrum, Mia.

If DS7 threw a toy (or otherwise misbehaved with it), I would take it away, as any parent would do. But the trick was that I took it away for a *very short time*--a matter of seconds for a 2yo!--and then gave it back. In essence, he was in time out from the opportnity to use that toy. But he learned to use it properly because I gave him another chance very soon afterward. If he threw the toy again, I took it away again, and then gave it back again. And so on. This didn't happen very many times before he realized that he'd have more fun if he followed instructions the first time. It provides lots of chances to learn in a very short span of time.

It worked on DS4 as well, though as always, it required more time and effort on my part because of his less logical and more volatile nature. But it did work.

FWIW...

Well, the trick with redirection is that you have to be firm and consistent about it -- if she keeps going back, keep saying, "No, that's not a toy. Let's find something else to do" and removing her and giving her something else interesting to do. She may get mad. But you have to do it over and over if she keeps going back or doing what she shouldn't be. It gets old fast, but she's *trying* to wear you down. Show her you won't be worn down!

Yup. Lots of chances to learn!

I guess we use it differently. I don't think time out used one minute per age can be very positive discipline if used effectively. I don't (or at least haven't to my knowledge) used time out for tantrums or behavior outbursts. well, at least not specific time outs. Now that DS4 is older I may send him up to his room until he is ready to be bearable to be around...no specific time limit on that one. Tantrums don't really happen too much, but with DS if they happen I just tell him that I will talk with him when he calms down, and then I usually leave the room. With DD21 months I just step away from her. She really doesn't do much, just stomps for a second and she is done. With DS4 when he does something completely unacceptable he sits for a couple minutes, but it is "___ quiet minutes" I do use one minute for age and that works for us. I use it for them to know a behavior is not acceptable. It defeats the purpose if they scream for their time out and then you say "times up, you can get up now" The way I use it, they are calm and then we do a 15 second recap and it's over (recap meaning...what happened, what could you do different next time,) With DD she is way to little. If I will use it for if she screams repeatedly...or something like that. She gets it because after a minute of time out she doesn't do it anymore. I also use time out from objects (ie: if you are banging your cup on the table, your cup takes a little time out). It all works well for us.

Maybe it's just how I've seen it used. No offense intended.