Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional WMI and AD/HD: a cure?

I don't want to hijack anyone's thread but I have a theory about curing AD/HD. Don't laugh at me. I'm not a doctor.

DS6 was recently given a WISC FSIQ of 118, GAI of 129. His WMI is average and pulling his PRI and VCI down. I have been telling people since he was born that he behaves best when he's intellectually challenged and people generally roll their eyes in response. What do I know, right? I'm just the mom.

Now operating under Premise One: there's a scatter pattern on the WISC for AD/HD subjects with higher GAI than FSIQ (i.e. low WMI and PSI) and Premise Two: WMI can be improved via academic challenges, would it follow that my AD/HD treatment method of intellectually challenging DS6 is actually almost a cure?

That makes me think he doesn't ahve ADHD at all - and just needs more challenge. I'm sure some individuals - do have ADHD - but Shari's story on the other thread of how many of her foster's kids were told they had it, when they didn't - kind of proves the point that its either under, over or incorrectly diagnosed. Interesting theory ...but I don't know enough about the whole testing process to really know what else to say here. Dotte might?!

Wouldn't it help if we could find more truly scientific examples/methods to diagnose. i.e. brain scans with clear pictures v. someone's opinion based on observation alone?

I'm thinking along the lines of Ironmom. Two of my kids (so far) have working memory and processing scores that are lower (for my dd, it's a 26-point difference), and neither one has adhd. So, I'd guess that having the lower working memory and processing scores is an affect of adhd, but not a cause - though I wouldn't rule out it working both ways. It just doesn't seem unusual to have that type of scatter among gifted kids who don't have adhd, so I don't see how "fixing" it (if that's possible) would necessarily do anything to the adhd. Interesting idea, though!

I think it's true lol based on my own kid. His 1st grade teacher hinted ALL year about ADHD. I had him tested by a psysch and he never mentioned ADHD. My best friend was with my son for a week and she has ADHD as well as one of her kids and she said in no way is DS even on the spectrum. So DS 2nd grade teacher told me about his behaviors in class and then add, "But it's not inattention. WHen I take away the worksheet and give him a more challenging one, he hops right to it, gets it done quickly, in his head, and correct. Look at these problems. Read them. these are at least 2 step problems and he's doing it all in his head. Next year he really needs a teacher that can challenge him."

He would sit there, and honestly I wondered if he had ADHD, and dawdle over simple, stupid homework for HOURS. I asked him why and he said, "WHen it's too easy, I can't focus on it." Out of the mouths of babes.

I started coming to the conclusion that he wasn't being purposefully difficult, stubborn or trying to drive me insane...that that is how his brain works. Most people don't get it and assume it's something I can bribe, punish out of him. Nothing worked. He would CRY when I told him to not do his homework, that it was OK, but yet he still couldn't bring himself to do it.

I'm reading a book on Executive skills which posits that ADHD is deficiency in several executive skills. So the correlation to that is that executive skills can be improved upon or at least lessoned by using other skills to compensate. On some website, I read that some kids outgrow ADHD but current thinking is that medications actually prevent that. I would assume b/c they don't learn coping skills or how to use other executive skills to compensate. For those that do need the meds, perhaps their ADHD has a different origin.

It sounds that way to me too....... if he is not doing the seat dance* when challenged, then I would say no he doesn't have it.

* the head and maybe one hand stay with the work while the rest of the body snakes around in the chair..... feet will sometimes reach head high..... that is what I see when my DS7 works on something, or eats a meal, etc.

Mis-diagnosis is terrible. I had a speech therapist last year decide my son had Aspergars and did a test she wasn't qualified to administer to prove it. I've now had three Doctors all agree that he doesn't have it.

one other thing..... don't let them rail rode you..... if your gut is telling you your right..... go with it!

I read, probably on this board, that if a child does NOT show the behaviours when challenged, then it's not ADHD. The first step is to get proper material ie challenging material and see if behaviors improve.

I think totally different things with different causes (including boredom) fall under the umbrella heading "ADHD" that it's completely meaningless.

I now understand my son's behaviors come from an autoimmune reaction to chronic strep that is attacking his brain--in other words, damage to the basal ganglia. Totally different cause from other kids' "ADHD" but a convenient label for the behaviors.

My son does not show the behaviors when bored but, on the other hand, it's very difficult and unreasonable really to challenge him in the way that would keep him calm and focused. It would need to be all I did all day long (which is basically the way it was before I got married and had another baby, and before he started school with its expectation of conformity). Books do it, but even he can't read all day. People do need to adapt to the world and learn to tolerate boredom in a nondestructive way, don't you think?

Dazey, I agree with your thoughts on medicine. (I respect others' right to use it, blah blah blah...) But, it makes sense to me. I've also seen people take prozac from their physician but never see a therapist to work through the root of their problem. So, this is going to be my new path...finding ways to boost his working memory, processing speed and executive function.

Look what I found last night! It's a video called "Cogmed". $1500 folks. But, even CHADD (the AD/HD authority) wrote up an article about how great it is. http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/3430.html In the article, my theory is supported. They say that there's a decrease in attention issues and hyperactivity from working on the WMI!

Herein lies the problem. His ADHD prevented him from scoring well on the WISC so I have no method of getting him harder work unless I do it myself. Sigh. My kid will be fine because he has me and I will do what needs to be done for him but how many kids out there are in this exact situation?

Hi Gtc, our psych mentioned Cogmed in passing so it appears legit. He hasn't finished ds' write up yet so no firm diagnosis of anything yet, but low psi to be sure. It's funny, he's not always slow, so there are still questions in my mind too about boredom, etc. Your district has a hard cut off for gt eligibility, or are you not sure? Ours seems a little flexible at least, I have made a couple of calls on it. They are surprisingly forthcoming with info, too. If they seriously consider creativity and reading level, ds might still be found eligible. Also, in light of the psi thing, the person I chatted with said a 'child study' could be done to better understand any gt/ld educational needs. She said, 'this stuff can be complex'. Anyway that was encouraging for me and I wanted to share in case you have other avenues you could pursue within the schools. Please keep writing, I am interested to hear more...:)

To some degree, this is true. Many children/adults with ADHD can hyperfocus on tasks that are interesting to them. The difference is with everyday behavior. I generally find those dx with ADHD do not have a time sense... or basically know when to quit and have lunch or, their memories of what they had just leisurely read has been quickly forgotten.

My teen son is a 2E child and it has not been a very pleasent experience. One thing that was consistent was standardized tests he would ace with a perfect score... sometimes the begining of the year when he started that grade level. He needed teachers to repeat instructions or post them so he can remind himself what he was to be working on.

Reading was a nightmare in 3rd grade, but he learned how to answer the questions without reading the text. He just used logical reasoning or skimmed various sentences.

Because gt testing is just a snapshot score of what your child was performing on that given day... why not see if you can incorporate ideal studying/learning habits and take the test again the next year?

Actually, I think I'm getting ready to homeschool. That's why I haven't been online really. I'm trying to gather materials and make up a curriculum and plan it all out. Spring break is coming up for his school so it's the ideal time to get started. Homeschooling will allow me to really figure out what's going on with him and teach him skills to compensate until we're able to pinpoint the root of his problem. He's also starting a private sensory OT (brain kines) program as well.

gtc,I have been following your posts. I am glad you have decided to homeschool. I was going to wait until ds has taken the achievement test (end of April) before I decide. Then I realize no matter how the achievement test turns out, our school won't be able to accommodate ds. So we are going to homeschool also. There was a homeschool resource question a couple weeks ago. Did you take a look at that? Here is the link:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....chool_Curriculum_Resource.html#Post41319

Good luck!

That's great, Gtc, I have considered this too, but for now anyway the school does seem to be working out, they are trying, and pretty up-to-date with their thinking, so I am crossing all my fingers Best of luck on the hs!

GTC and fangcyn - welcome to the club! That's what got me into HSing...I felt I needed more time w/ him to get a handle on his issues.

This article seems like it belongs in this thread, about new research on inconsistency of response times from adhd children, rather than consistently slow responses.
I don't know why this didn't occur to me before, but I guess it would be too easy to throw a very bad score by having just a few very very slow responses despite generally being about average in response time. Still not great, but interesting.

Inconsistent Performance Speed Among Children with ADHD...