Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Working on an IEP - Suggestions welcome

Hi there, My son is 8 years old and in regular third grade classroom. After many years of problems, evaluations and negative school experiences, we have reached the point of getting a formal IEP in place.

He is not nearly as off the charts as many of the children discussed here but I hope that you will be willing/able to suggest in particular the pitfalls to watch out for in this process.

On an evaluation done this summer he scored a Full Scale IQ of 125 on the WISC-IV (Integrated) and 133 on the Woodcock Johnson Tests of Cognative Abilities. In subsets he scored in the 99.6+ percentile in all subsets involving reasoning and in the 40-50 Percentile in all subsets dealing with processing and organization.

The Psychiqatrist also feels that we are dealing with Early onset Bipolar, ADHD combined type and a moderate level of Oppositional/Defiant Behaviors.

In terms of school, our son has great difficulty with completing assignments within the specified time (especially tests). Writing full descriptive sentences without fatiguing rapidly (although he can verbally relate complex sentences and concepts.) He was effectively expelled from his previous school (montessory program). Although to be honest after the situation there, I would have removed him sooner if it could have been managed. He has great difficulty staying on task and controlling his impulsive behaviour. He often appears to be less socially mature than his agemates, but when placed with students 2-3 years older than him, has no such difficulty. The school has infomally placed him the the emotional support system but to date are doing little with him since they don't see any problems.
DS bursts into tears almost every afternoon when he gets home from school. From what I can gather from him, it isn't due to anything in particular, just that he feels overwhelmed. Last night, he barely slept because he was afraid of a reading test scheduled for today. The test involves writing short answers to over 30 questions in 20 minutes. He said that in the classwork, he has never been able to finish more than 18.
The school is going to do an OT screening to see if he needs help with his pencil grip. They also offered to start tracking his behaviors according to times of day. We do not have a formal IEP meeting set up yet, but expect it to be scheduled within the next month.

Thanks in advance for your advice and suggestions.

Hi. I feel compelled to respond both as a mom of a GT kid and as an OT. I do have a couple of questions though.

Who did the evaluation over the summer? Is he followed by a psychiatrist? Anyone that has experience working with a gifted child? That is quite a list of diagnoses for an 8 year old to be labelled with. Have you ever read "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults"? You might want to pick up a copy. Some of what you posted makes me question whether he truly does have any of those diagnoses. Please be cautious in what you share with the school about diagnosis - until you know for sure or feel quite confident about the label.

I can pretty much predict that his issue isn't with "pencil grip." This really bothers me, as so many doctors and teachers and other professionals think that the issues with handwriting and/or producing written work can be "fixed" by correcting a pencil grip! The pencil grip is typically the least of the concerns. I'm hoping that the school OT has some knowledge of sensory integration and will look WAY beyond pencil grip and look for underlying causes of his issues.

It also sounds like you need to find the reason for his anxiety - he seems more anxious than anything else. My little guy tends toward anxiety. Just his temperament.

I think that if the only people who have assessed him are at the school, then you need to look into private testing. My experience from both ends of the spectrum (special needs at either end) is that you are better off seeking a specialist OUTSIDE the school. The school will need to do what is called a Case Study Evaluation to determine if he is even eligible for an IEP and special education services. But I'd be surprised if your school staff has experience with gifted testing. They are more likely to be LOOKING for pathology and more likely to misinterpret behaviors using what knowledge they have. I say go for some comprehensive private testing if you can.

I'd like to recommend getting an OT evaluation outside of the ed. system, too. It made a world of difference for my son when we did the Sensory Integration and Praxis Test with a qualified OT last year (gosh it's been a year!!!). We were better able to determine what my son's sensory needs were and how to work with him. Debbie could let you know if that is a good route for you to go too. She's the one who told us about it.

The meltdown after school is common. Usually these little guys just hold it together throughout the day then come home exhausted and sensory overwhelmed. I have my son's weighted blanket on hand for him to use. Most of the time he goes straight for it when he gets home. If we are in the car he uses the weighted lap pad.

I second Debbie about getting outside testing. We took our son to a OT for a SIPT evaluation. We took him to a neuropsychologist for a total educational and neurological evaluation. We took him to a neurologist for diagnosis.

Another good read for you is The Mislabeled Child by the Eides. That and the Misdiagnosis one Debbie recommended will give you a very good idea of what all a gifted child has to deal with.

Mind you, your sons scores are high. On the WISC IV the confidence interval is 6pts+/-. Given the areas of deficit is is quite conceivable your son's iq is higher than the test predicts. Also given that the test was most likely not done by a gifted specialist....well, like Debbie says, get the outside eval.

godspeed! Your son is lucky to have you for a mom, cuz you obviously are watching out for him!!! Go for it!!

Hi.

I know it is not this easy in most cases, but I wanted to let you know that once we removed our daughter from the public school without walls where she was extremely under-challenged, her afternoon temper flares, which she reserved exclusively for her brother and me, subsided. She has highly significant phonological perception and discrimination deficits, but no formal diagnosis as it hasn�t seemed to be a problem since her grade skip to a private school (with walls) 6 years ago. My point is that a more appropriate environment may considerably minimize the issues.

I would also like to echo Willa Gayle and Debbie in that you should look outside of the school district for an assessment and be cautious what you share with a school that may be inclined to adopt the perspective that your son is defective rather than recognize that the school environment may be inappropriate (and should be altered).

I believe your son�s scores are quite high for a 2E kid! What were his verbal and non-verbal subtest scores on the WISC IV?

Thanks for the responses. In answer to your questions:

The evaluation over the summer was done by a private psychologist because the school would not test him until around Thanksgiving. Based on his previous school experience, I was not willing to wait that long nor did I trust the school to do a complete evaluation. I have read the Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosies of Gifted Children and Adults and think that is raises alot of good points. I will pick up the Mislabled Child from the library soon, thanks!
Having done a lot of reading of any books and articles I could find especially the Hoagies site and SENG, I fought the ADHD label for 4 years believing that the bigger issue was challenging him appropriately in school. After some appalling school experiences last Spring, the Pediatrician basically refused to provide us with a referral to private testing unless we tried ADHD medications first. From April-July, we tried 3 different ADHD medications for about a month each. Every single medication made his behaviors dramatically worse and his emotions were a non-stop rollercoaster. At that point, we were able to get a referral to see a clinical Child Psychiatrist who based on our interview with him, has more experience with Gifted children than anyone else we interviewed over the past 4 years. He was also able to establish a good relationship with our son.

The recent testing included the WISC4, Object assembly subtest of the WISC3, WJ3-COG,WJ3-ACH, Beery Test of Visual Motor Integration, Development History Checklist, Children�s Problems Checklist, BASC2, ADHD rating scale, Home Situations Questionaires, Differential Diagnostic Criteria Checklist and a Family History Checklist. On the WISC4 his Verbal Comprehension was 132, Perceptual Reasoning was 133, Working Memory was 94, and Processing Speed was 109. The formal report is very much geared to suggesting that the school providing gifted services for our son.

About 2 years ago we also did a full OT evaluation which came back that he has several Areas of concern. Primarily, core muscle control, fine motor skills and some sensitivity to noise and light but he is a sensory seeker type. We have had him in OT now for 2 years but he really doesn�t seem to make much progress . We also have The Sensory Child has fun and do lots of those activities at home. I also keep the weighted blanket on hand and he has a move/sit cushion on his chair for homework time.

My back pocket option for him is to home school. We have explored all of the private schools, charter schools and Montessori schools within an hour driving distance and right now the Public schools are willing to do the most for him. However, I�m not sure I have the patience to teach him. Just getting him through homework wears us both out.

Another note, at this time, we do not have him on any Medications. We are pursuing a second opinion about the Bi-Polar and ADHD diagnosis before medicating. The medications frankly scare me. However, Bi-Polar does run in our family so�.

Again, thank you for your responses, concern and aid.

Thanks for sharing so much more info. It sure sounds like you've done a lot of work in advocating and helping your son. He's lucky to have you!

I'm mostly concerned about the OT thing (since that's my thing!). If he's been assessed and has what you describe, then he should be a great candidate for SI based therapy and related interventions (like Therapeutic Listening and Interactive Metronome). If he is not really making progress then you might want to seek out an SI certified OT who is more knowledgeable and can provide more effective treatment. SIPT testing, as Willa pointed out, could shed some more light on the issues and help direct intervention. But the SIPT is only standardized up to the age of 8 y 11 mo, so you should look into it soon for the most valid results.

If he has core problems he is likely low muscle tone, which is going to influence how he holds a pencil. Fixing the pencil grip won't help - it will only frustrate him unless the underlying problem, the core stability and muscle tone, are addressed. Once you treat the core all the other skills just fall into place! Kids with these issues cannot meet the growing demands of higher level cognitive skills because they are expending too much energy on just sitting upright in the chair, holding the pencil and trying to figure out how to form the letters mechanically. It's exhausting to a kid - and gets worse about the age of 8 or 9, when the demands start really going up. Trust me on this one - lots of experience with kids like that. If the OT he's working with isn't getting anywhere, look for someone else who can make a difference.

Also, he's probably having difficulty because his processing speed is slower. I've read that this is common to gifted kids who tend to want to consider all the options - they take a lot longer to make decisions because they are processing ALL the options in their head. Or they are overthinking the problems, or questions. Is that what your guy does? My son's working memory was lower, relatively speaking compared to his other scores. I see how it affects him because he has a hard time holding things in his head when we talk. He does better with visual cues. My husband is the same way, can't hold on to all that verbal info.

On another listserve I heard about the kids version of the Myers-Briggs. Maybe that would help you better understand his needs related to how he processes info. I understand you can have it done through Dr. Ruf's website. www.educationaloptions.com

One other question: has he ever had a developmental vision evaluation?

I hope that the school can meet his needs, but I guess first you just have to all agree on what his needs really are. Hang in there. And keep us posted.

Well, The IEP meeting will be sometime before Thanksgiving. On the good side, The School Psych did ask if we wanted the gifted Coordinator to be invited. She also said that he appears to her after her observations to be a gifted child in a regular classroom.
Now I need to put my nose to the grindstone and get my list of wants together.
So far, I want to ask for
1. accelleration in math - Computer /online programming to allow DS to progress in math without holding him back for the dysgraphia.
2. Keyboarding for all assignments requiring writing of more 15 sentences
3. Handwriting without tears to build up his handwriting.
4. 2x per year evaluations and meetings to make sure that the IEP is working for him at that time.
5. Allow DS to take out books from the library for all grade levels. (currently he can't take out books off the 4th and 5th grade shelves)
6. Participation in gifted pull out (1 day out of every 6) as long as it does not require him to complete all class assignments as homework. (regular assigned homework is fine)

I think his biggest needs are work on core muscle control and a challenging academic curriculum. Emotionally, other than the morning and after school outbursts he seems to be doing ok. I think the therapy he's been in and the change in schools really has helped with that. Personally, I'd like to see if an appropriate academic fit resolves most of the ADHD/BiPolar behaviors before going to any sort of medication.

Other suggestions?

Best Wishes elh0706,
I agree with Dottie, get specifics. The more they talk theory, the better it will sound, but they define most things differently than we do.

LoL - We've got the keyboarding for 5 sentences!

Does he need fewer problems on the page, or large print math problems? Mine did but didn't get it. If he can really handwrite 15 sentences, then he may be ok with handwritten math, IF the page is big enough, or he uses large square graph paper to keep it all straight, or is allowed to turn the notebook paper sideways to keep the lines of numbers aligned.....

Good luck!
Trinity

Well, our IEP meeting is over. The roller coaster ride continues. While I think that many in the meeting particularly the School Psychiatrist are truly interested in help in our son to succeed. Others seem to have a very dated approach to what will help him. Much of the attitude in the meeting had a sense of your son is doing well in school. His grades are good and his test scores excellent. Why do you want to change anything?

The words from both the Gifted coordinator and the Emotional support teacher pretty much sum up the results of the meeting. �It is good for high potential children to learn how to deal with boredom since they will experience it all of their life.� Further bells of doom included the words that the school district has a zero acceleration policy. Any gifted services must be enrichment only. The only enrichment that he will be offered is a 3 hour pull-out every seventh school day. The thrust of it will be a handwritten research project. Not a great fit for dysgraphic 8 year old. The other hands on activities in the pull-out include logic puzzles and creative writing. They looked like copied pages from the Mindware books that DS was doing 3 years ago.

There will be no formal enrichment in the classroom. If he finishes his regular seat work, he may be provided with more work. I could not clarification from any of them what would be offered in the more work. Will it be more of the same regular class room assignments or would it be different in some manner. I guess I will have to wait and see what he starts to bring home.

As far as accomodations, DS has made alot of progress this year. Cursive writing seems to work better for him than printing so his skill is marginally at grade level. As a result, he will not be allowed any keyboarding. No online programming will be considered since that falls under the classification of Acceleration. He will be given some in school incentive to keep his desk neater and to stand quietly in lines...

The only positive note is that our son is happy to be able to go to the pull-out. His first will be on Thursday. At this point, unless I am willing to forgo my income and home school him, I think I am at a stopping point. DS has agreed to some additional after schooling projects so I�ll try to make those as interesting and diverse as possible for him. DH wants to take a wait and see approach to see how things go. Meanwhile, I remain concerned that DS is learning that it�s OK to coast and that he doesn�t have to put effort into school. Socially, I think the school has a lot of benefits. DS is an extrovert and loves having lots of children of all ages around. He also seems to be getting along well with his school mates no matter the age.

Oh Elh0706 !
goodby sweet keyboard! Well it is good that cursive is going well. Is your son still crying in AM and afterschool?

Apparently no one is concerned about the early onset Bipolar ADHD, etc. I'm hoping the gifted program helps, perhaps they will let him keyboard there?

Is there another public school that might be more receptive? It's true that gradeskips can be hard if the organizational skill aren't there.

I'm not worried about the "ok to coast" because of the struggle to do the handwritting. Perhaps your school can allow you to send in the "extra work?" Is he finishing quickly enough to get to the extra work?

Glad he is having fun socially. If he doesn't hate himself then I guess wait and see is as good as you can do for now. Obviously your child is very asynchronous, and very often that improves with age.

Lots of Love,
Trinity