Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments do you know anything about montessori preschool?

I just had to add my .02 in here so if I go on a tirade I apologize...my son's experience at his Montessori school is what pushed us over the edge, killed his love of learning and opened our eyes to homeschooling. I agree with everyone on here 100%...it all depends on the teacher and how that teacher perceives "montessori". I have seen countless children go through Montessori and then come into my K classroom when I used to teach and I saw an absolute difference between "regular" preschooled children and Montessori children - for the better. I have friends in other states that have had outstanding experiences with Montessori programs. The clue is to find the teacher and the school that is a "true" Montessori.
So of course when it came time, we began my son at a Montessori program. Because my husband and I both had to work, he began at a Montessori school when he was 2 (they had a pre-montessori class at the montessori school that he attended). His teacher was amazing, he thrived for 1.5 years in her program....when he moved up to the 3-5 regular Montessori preschool class that is when all the stuff began to hit the fan. The first year, he was still trying to learn how to deal with his Sensory issues and kind of took a back seat to things...was very quiet. He would hardly say boo in class and then run circles at home all evening long exploring everything under the sun. The next year (his 3rd year there), he felt confident and really started to be himself in class and the teacher was completely overwhelmed...she kept trying to pigeon hole him..wouldn't allow him to move from one activity to another even though he very clearly had the activity mastered. If it wasn't done absolutely to her exact specifications (such as QUIETLY carrying his activity tray WITHOUT spilling any of the activity items off the tray)..then he was made to do it over and over again despite the fact he could do the activity. She would not allow him to move on to more complex math activities (which is his love and strength) because he could not write "properly". She swore up and down that Montessori was all about being in complete control of your body and learning how to walk slowly, handling one item at a time, completing the activity and slowly walking to put items back one at a time. Yes, self control is part of the Method but it is not the end all of it. She complained that my son was learning "too quickly" and what would she do. She purposely held back activities he was ready for and told him he couldn't do it until he was in Kindergarten. So a whole section of the class got closed off to kids unless they were delegated as K children..no matter that the child was very much BEGGING to do them.....my son became a changed person and began to hate school. We should have pulled him sooner but we kept thinking it would get better the more teacher conferences we would have explaining that Maria Montessori did NOT pigeon hole her students...if they were ready to move on, she allowed them.....he was frustrated and so were we....so we are exploring homeschooling which is going wonderfully. Please make sure to go in with a list of questions to find out if they are a true Montessori and ask how they handle it when a child is very clearly able to handle the next level of an activity even though they might not be able to write....sorry to rant..

thank you so much. I appreciate that. It is great to know specifically what I should be asking and looking for. The hard thing would be sending dd there and just trusting them. How will I know what is actually going on the classroom? I really don't like the idea of certain tasks having to be completed before others, and I don't like the idea of there being only specific ways to use the manipulatives. What if dd wanted to build a castle out of the blocks...I am guessing that is a no-no? Are they allowed to use their imagination at all? I guess what attracted me to the program was the learn at your own pace part of it and the idea of self learners and self motivators.

Well, I suppose I will just see how the tour and the open house goes at this school and just take it from there.

Thank you all so much...very helpful.

Onsie - Can you 'journal' abit about what selfish reasons you think might be influencing you?

Also, how many hours per day/ days per week are these programs.

Alllllso, (sorry to sound like a broken record here) Socializing with peers is important. But, are you likely to find kids that will motivate her to reach out and share herself with at an age-based program? No. So if by socialized you mean for her to follow other adults, just make sure that the other adults are of a similar LOG as your daughter.

Observe, Observe, Observe!


Grins

No, I think it's usually frowned upon to use manipulatives in any way but the "right" way. Montessori materials are expensive, so the prescribed way is the way it must be done. As this "right way" is usually/supposed to be challenging to the child, it's usually not an issue. The kids naturally tend to focus on that goal because the challenge grabs them, you know? But from what I've seen, there's not much room for imaginative play in Montessori. DS7 just did this stuff at home after school, but for a really creative kid, I suppose that could be a problem.

As for how will you know what's happening, you'll want to find a school that allows you to observe when you want to. We had to make an appointment at our Montessori school because they wouldn't let parents in the room, and there was only room for one behind the one-way mirror in the office. I'll admit that I didn't love that I couldn't just show up and watch. Most schools do let you just show up. But OTOH, the mirror did give me a way to see what was really happening, without my presence affecting my son's regular behavior. So that was nice.

However, the fact is that if your DD goes to pre-K, you *won't* always know exactly what is happening with her or have control over it. She's out in the world without you for part of the day, and that will be something you and she will have to adjust to. You'll have to rely a lot on what she tells you and what the teacher tells you. Good communication with other parents in the class helps, too, since they often provide another adult take on what's going on.

I will say that I think some of pre-K is about letting go a bit, often more for the parent than for the child. My mom was a (wonderful!) pre-K teacher, and she often talked about kids who were very independent and capable, until their parents came into class to volunteer...and suddenly the child couldn't pour juice or do things alone. Mom took over and the kid became helpless. (I'm not saying that's you, just that I've seen it from the other side that not all parents are ready to let go, and that it isn't really a good thing for a child if they're not.)

If she (or you!) aren't ready to let go like that, then it probably is too early for pre-K. There's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has to go to pre-K. Certainly not everyone needs to go for 2 years. But it's better to figure that out now rather than sending her and not really having your heart in it, you know?

In my positive experience, the teachers are strict with troublemakers. This is DD's second year in the class of 3-5 year olds. Two boys, aged 3, joined the class this past fall. They are trouble and the teachers would give them "time outs", they say they are not time outs but they have to sit at the desk until they understand what is going on.

The whole class would be going to Central Park for a walk and if they didn't behave, they would have to turn around and go back. So the whole class suffered, which is peer pressure. I would hear stories of these two boys not behaving, at bath time. I don't hear them anymore. It took a couple of months, but they behave.

Ren

Well my DS just started a Montessori school this morning. I am hopeful that there is some room for creativity. When we went to visit he took the number rods and started lining them up. He started to put the numbers next to the rods as was suggested, but then he decided to spread out the numbers and move the 10 rod toward the number 10. He then verbalized that the mission was for the 10 rod to hit the 10 and that it only had 3 chances and that it was going towards the 2. It apparently did hit the 10 on the third time, so all was well. He wasn't loud or overly active with this so maybe it was okay. Anyhow, the teacher just watched and didn't say anything. She smiled and seemed interested in how he would play. Of course I was on a visit and she may have been a little less directive because I was on a visit. They do say that kids want to explore everything first and that they encourage that, but when he wanted to play with a few things they encouraged him to get instructions first. But they did let him play with them without instructions. I am not sure if they would come over and tell him that he wasn't playing with them right or not. He is not the most super creative kid in the world, but he typically figures and things and does things in an atypical way. She had told him to only carry one rod at a time to the rug so that he could see them getting bigger and he told her that he could already tell that they were getting bigger even if he carried more than one. But then complied with carrying only one at a time. That was the only thing that bothered me a little bit during my visit. Because really it is more efficient to carry a couple at a time. it gives you more time to do other things. : )

Of course, this is only our experience...

At ds's Montessori program, it seemed like they were more concerned with "inappropriate" use of materials--like turning rods into swords -- than with exploration of the materials. It's meant to be directed independent learning, so yes, the number beads are meant for adding/subtracting/multiplying, not for turning into trains. Teachers would redirect if the materials weren't being used for learning.

That's what we were going for, an environment in which he'd be actively learning, since he was clearly bored at his play-based daycare. I don't know if it would have gone as well had we started him at a young 3; he may not have been ready for the environment. As it was, he was among the squirreliest at circle time. But overall, it was what he needed at the right time for him.

On a positive note - Montessori has tons on offer when done well. My son knew all of the continents by the end of the first semester of his second year and had pin punched every single continent out of paper and assembled a "globe" picture. You won't find that kind of activity I don't think at most Pre-K's. All the work he did from age 2 3/4 or so was geared towards toddler's and their need to feel and touch things which was great.

I would ask lots of questions about the administrative side of the school and ask other parents how they find the communication at the school. This was a huge let down at our school - though I hear its now more organized. As you can't possibly know what your kids are doing all day once you let them go, what the teacher's tell you and how soon they tell you is important. How attentive they are is important. One time my child went into school and another child started yelling at him, and he was yelling back and it was obvious that what he had been telling me about not liking this child was true and had gone on rather a long time. Other parents that didn't work filled me in on a lot of other incidents I would never have known about. It also took the school ages (one whole semester) to tell me that he was starting to have some behavioral issues when he was a young 4 - and I felt like they had waited way too long.

Also ask about how they structure their playground time. I found our school wasn't always really monitoring the playground the same way they monitored the work indoors - and outside time was often when the worse incidents occurred or when the worst influence from certain problem children they took in one year occurred. I felt that adversely affected my son and exposed him to things I personally had been keeping away from him.

ok....hmmm journaling on why I feel I might have selfish reasons for her to stay home with me. I guess a part of me just thinks it might be easier for her to be home with me. I won't have to worry about all of this. I won't have to worry that she is being treated properly, or is happy...I know she is happy with me at home! I think some of the selfishness is also me just not wanting to deal with what most parents have to deal with when there child goes to school. How do I check on her and make sure everything is ok, what if everything isn't ok, what if somehow my choice of programs for her has in some way changed her in a negative way. Isn't this all so much easier if I can stay in my bubble and not send her! BUT and a big but here, I really think that she might like school at some point...as for this fall or next fall,I don't know. So if I think she might thrive in a preschool environment, then how can I be selfish and hold her back...well I can't.

The montessori program I am looking at these days is 3 afternoons per week (not sure how naps would work) for 2.5 hours per day. It is called an introduction to Montessori Preschool. The full preschool program is 5 mornings per week, but other than the time, they are the same program. The play based programs I have been looking at are 2 or 3 mornings (2.5 hours) per week.

I guess by socialize, I mean being comfortable in the same room as other kids, without me there. I would like to her learn to talk with other kids, want to sit with them, share etc. Right now she plays with her cousin (very gifted) of the same age and other than that she doesn't really show any interest in wanting to be around other kids. At kindergyms she does her thing and once in a while drops what she is doing (playing in a tunnel, building a tower etc) because other kids come to join her. Soemtimes she even seems scared of the other kids. So, I guess I was thinking mainly of learning to have fun with other kids, besides her cousin. Maybe a play based preschool would be better for that...or maybe a small preschool of only 7 or 8 kids.

orrrrr maybe she will just stay home with me...always the easiest! lol It's so hard to trust someone with her. I'm not sure why...I guess because she is my only child, but I only trust my mom and my husband with her and now I have to leave her with basically a stranger?!

ok enough of this rambling! Thank you all forgiving me a place to type! I don't expect this to be replied to...if anything, it is a valuble exercise for me to just type without thinking and try to clear up my thoughts! Didn't work this time, but maybe next time! lol

If your main motivation is to get her some socialization time, then yes, I think play-based makes a lot of sense. As I mentioned, we needed full-day care -- our Montessori preschool was 5 mornings a week, and they had "extended day" until 5:30 when those kids continued their works.

I took a semester off of school and had ds-then-3 in a simple community center play program for 2.5 hours, two mornings a week during that time so he didn't get out of the swing of going to "school." It sounds like something like that may be what you're looking for -- there is more freedom for play and she might prefer that.

OTOH, if she is worried by other kids, she may prefer the quiet, structured atmosphere of Montessori. Really, the only way you'll know is by taking her in for a visit!

One thing to consider ... parallel play, where kids play the same thing but alongside each other, not interactive, is very, very normal at that age. Even if she knew the kids, she may not be interested in interactive play, *especially* if she's noticeably ahead of where they are cognitively. They might not understand her games or want to do what she's doing.

DS-then-4 didn't interact much with the kids at his play-based childcare; they just didn't share his interests. He did meet some more kids that interested him at his Montessori -- I think there were more G kids there, though I'm not sure why that is. Just keep in mind that she might not experience the "shared play" until she's a bit older, whether she's in preschool or not.

That said, I think there is a lot of value in the "separate from mom" time that kids with SAHMs get from play-based school, gifted or not, for all the reasons you've listed -- comfortability with other kids, being okay with mom leaving for a bit and knowing she'll come back, social skills like sharing and waiting. Go and observe!



This I can answer, because I was an infant teacher for two years (and loved it!). You can call to check on her. You can ask for a written report each day. You'll know if things aren't going well from her general attitude.

If you do decide to take the plunge, it may take a short adjustment time before she really enjoys going -- I'd give it 6 weeks, whether she loves it or screams at drop off every morning, before making a final decision on whether to keep her in or pull her out. Being away from mom can be a big adjustment for a kid with a SAHM, so give her some time to get used to the idea if she isn't keen on it at first. But you'll know if it's not going well, and you can always pull her out if it's truly a disaster.

Likely, though, she'd enjoy it!