Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy I need help- Agression issues?

Has anyone dealt with severe agression issues with their GT child?

I am so frustrated with DS6. After a few trips to the principal's office over the past month or two he finally got an official displinary write up yesterday for wrestling with another child and when told to stop he actually lashed out at the teacher. Both verbally and physically.

DS6 is already in counseling for verbal anger issues and now it seems to be turning into physical anger. His afterschool teacher even asked me if DS6 was on meds yesterday because she can't believe how much physical agressive energy he has been having lately.

I don't know if I can blame everything on lack of academic challenge (Split k/1st--neither remotely challenging).

When I try and talk with DS6 about these behavior he always tries to remove the blame from himself. He says things like we don't love him enough or that no one understands him because he was only playing around.

When given academic stimulation at home I am finding that he is getting increasing frustrating with anything even remotely hard. If he can't figure something out or gets a problem wrong he calls himself stupid and that he has a stupid brain.

We are looking to enroll him into a school for GT kids next fall (first year it is even open) and there does not seem to be another school option available to us right now (both DH and I work full time).

Has anyone been down this path before--I would love to hear stories (both good and bad) of how it has resolved or not resolved.

Thanks

Crisc, hugs to all of you!
We have had a little expereince but not to nearly the same degree. I wish I could say that we found a good solution, but in our case the aggressive behavior tends to happen more often when DS is not challenged. Since it doesn't seem like there is another school option, what sorts of extracurricular activities are possible? As odd as it might sounds, we found karate to be a great option. Swimming and tennis have also helped at times. The more physical activity DS gets, the less aggressive frustration he exhibits. Once the excess energy is worked off, we usually make alot more progress in getting answers to the underlying issues as well as working out better ways to express himself instead of aggression!
The pushing off of the blame is pretty typical of his age. According to DS's Psychiatrist, these kids are often so afraid to disappoint us that they find it hard to tell us something is really their fault.
Hope things get better soon!

Crisc: I am so sorry to hear about this. We have had aggression problems with our DS4 also, and from an emotional standpoint they are incredibly hard to deal with. Perhaps our story will help you think about your situation.

Our problems began last year when DS (then 3) underwent a triple-whammy: new house in a new town, new school (in immersion French, a language he didn't speak), and DW undergoing a severe illness and consequent surgery. The whole thing was compounded, though, by the fact that the teacher allowed the problem to go on for almost two months without saying a word to us. We went to the parent-teacher meeting in Nov., shortly after a serious and unexpected surgery for DW, thinking that at least we'd get some good news about our son. Instead, the teacher went on a tirade about how DS had become the class bully and was regularly beating up all his classmates. It was so unexpected, and so hostile, and we were in such an emotionally vulnerable state anyhow because of DW's illness, that we both just went home and cried.

Our strategy was to demand daily updates from the teacher about DS's behavior at school, and to emphasize social and behavioral issues at home. I expressed my strong dissatisfaction about being kept out of the loop, and told her that we couldn't expect to deal with a problem like this unless the teacher and the parents presented a united front. (Some of the issues here might be cultural: the French teachers are much more reticent to talk about your kid than American teachers seem to be.) Since then our mantra every morning when we drop him off at school is that he has to play nicely with his friends and listen to his teachers. Sometimes that works.

At the suggestion of the teacher, too, we enrolled him in karate. This has had the expected side-effect that when there are issues now he is capable of doing more serious damage. (Indeed, my immediate response to the teacher's suggestion was, "What? You think he's not efficient enough when he beats up his friends?") But it is true that given the right instructor one of the main lessons of the practice is self-control. In the end, I think that karate has been a valuable thing for DS. But the main advantage of it is that he reveres his karate instructor. (And so do we, by the way.) One very good way to get him to think more carefully about his behavior is to ask him whether Mr. D. would approve. In general, I think it is terrific for him to have another very powerful male role model, especially one who endorses physical behavior but teaches the boundaries. It's also a pretty good physical outlet.

Like you, I'm not at all sure that it's right to put our problems down to boredom. Indeed, for the most part he seems to like school. Last year I think the triple-whammy was the explanation, but this year it seems to be a bit different. After doing 180 degree turnaround last year, the problems recurred again this September. In this case I think he really was being incited by one of the other boys. Fortunately, that's the way the teacher sees it too. But I did try very hard at the beginning of the year to establish an open line of communication with the teacher, and we have been able to present ourselves as working with her. I think that has helped a lot.

Frankly, it also helped a lot last year to take a very hard line. I found the things I thought DS most enjoyed and threatened to take them away if the behavior continued. And then I followed through when it did. I think that established a certain kind of relationship between us at the age of 3 that was helpful in dealing with behavior problems. I don't know if it would work the same way at 6.

In any case, I hope that some of these stories give you ideas. Feel free to PM me if you think it would be useful to have more details. And best luck...

BB

Thanks for the hugs and stories.

Right now DS6 is taking piano lessons and starts his yearly winter bowling league tomorrow. He will also play baseball again this spring and soccer in the fall (both sports he realy enjoys). DS6 did take karate at his pre-school last year and really didn't love it or hate it. It wasn't something he has asked to repeat.

We have been threatening and actually taking away video games and TV when he has made poor behavior choices. It doesn't seem to have the desired effect since the behaviors still occur even with the punishment in place. He also tries to find loopholes in his punishments and tries to manipulate us during his punishment (like watching his sister play video games isn't breaking the no video game rule...). He figures he can at least get our attention and occupy his time by arguing with DH and I.

I can't believe we are having so many difficulties at age 6. I can't imagine what the next few years will bring. I also don't like the example he is setting for my two younger children (ages 2 and 4).

When I try to crystallize it, I think the biggest advantage for us has come from finding a way to get him to take responsibility for the behavior. I'm sure there are lots of ways to do this, but in our case we've found it extremely useful to cultivate a variety of adult role models other than his family members. It is in genuinely not wanting to disappoint these people that DS has found the resources to resist impulsive behavior.

Let me also endorse elh's idea that a physically exhausted boy is less likely to get into trouble. I think this can be taken to extremes, and it was in my own childhood. But when someone has as much frantic energy as our DS does, and perhaps your DS too, it is bound to find its way to trouble unless there is some safe and productive outlet for it. I am not at all ashamed to take DS to the track and time him in 40 yard sprints until he drops. He loves it, and we love the peace that follows from it.

Just a thought.

BB

Ditto. With DD4 it was gymnastics. When I followed through and didn't let her go one day because of a behavior issue, it was a big turning point. Some of it is figuring out the child's "currency." What is it he really values and will work to preserve?

We also have done an emotional response scale with DD6. It's described here

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/socialemotionalissues/qt/emotion_coping.htm

This helped us figure out that reading a favorite book "Harold and the Purple Crayon" helps her regain control. Things that seemed like an 8 became a 3 after taking some time to read. Maybe you can help your son find something that works for him and talk to the teachers about allowing him to try it at school.

I also read books to my daughters by Lynne Namka. They helped give us language to talk about what's going on: ouchies, grouchies, sad, mad, confused, ashamed, etc.
http://www.angriesout.com/

None of these are magic fixes and I wish I had one for you. Hopefully some of this may be useful for your family.

Hello,

Have you considered that your child might be 2e? I ask because it took me until this year, when the disruptions were out of control, to finally understand that my child was not just gifted, something else was definitely causing the behaviors.

Getting an IEP makes sure that the teachers look at your child differently. It helps you cut yourself some slack. And it also gives you lots of different resources for new disciplinary approaches. I was very scared of getting a label for my child, but it has ended up helping a lot.

My 2 cents.

I have no suggestions beyond what others have already suggested, but I just wanted to lend you my support. If there's anything I can do, name it.

{{{{hugs}}}}

My DS12 is one of those kids who 'externalizes' his behavior - not the suffer in silence type, which I have finally become grateful for, but was very difficult to live through.
What I find is that a lot of teachers and parents attempt to apply 'behavioral' techniques in ways that are totally ineffective.

Get ahold of that old classic: "Dont' shoot the dog" - a short paperback chock full of basics about behavior mod. 1-2-3 magic is also a good read.

I wasn't sure what you meant by you quote above, but it reminded me of when DS12 was 6 and we finally got him a handheld video game player, just so that we could have something to 'take away.' We almost never give multi-day punishments. At age 6, we would count slowly to 5, and if the bad behavior didn't stop, or the good behavior wasn't in progress, we would 'take away' 5 of the daily alloted minutes. It amazed me how effective just 5 minutes of punishment could be. Over the years DS has bitterly regretted that he was 'too weak' to 'just not care' about his game privilege. Truly, he would rather have his dignity than the toy. Nowadays, saying that he is losing our respect is usually enough.

In a way, I think that any PG child of age 6 is '2E' if their emotional age doesn't match their intellectual age. It's just a very large gap between what their minds can grasp and what their emotions can handle. As they age, they have a greater ability to control themselves, and hopefully a greater motivation to 'act right.' I do think that getting our DS into a 'reasonable fit' classroom was a nescessary step in getting him to 'act right.' I also notice that tweens are treated with much more respect than 6 year olds, and that this helps DS tremendously.

I think the 'not wanting to take responsibility' thing is totally normal, but do keep trying to 'connect the dots.' I think it's one of those lessons that kids learn without demonstrating that they understand for many many years.

It's hard not to blame oneself, but you have him in therapy, so what else are you supposed to do? Is the therapist helping you and spouse with trying to handle him at home?

OK - here's what I've learned about behavior mod.
1) Have goals that can be stated briefly and in the positive.
ex: Not 'No Hitting' but 'Keep Hands to self"
2) Take away all privaleges and make him earn all screen time.
3) Frequent feedback. In first grade at age 6, the teacher would take him through a check list of 4 items just before lunch and at the end of the day. I saw the paperwork each day and we calculated how much screen time he had earned.
4) Short lists: Activly listen to the teacher and brainstorm the shortest list that will keep DS on track. Start with 3 items, one that DS is pretty sure to do well in so that you dont' feel like a meany. 4 is about the maximum.
We used this in 6th grade:
1) arrives to class on time
2) has all needed material
3) Does things the teacher's way

All clearly defined, all short, all stated in the positive.

I've always had to volunteer to write up the instruments, because most folks use behavior mod when they are angry and want to 'stick it' to the kid. This won't work.

I will say that in the absence of school that teaches to the child's readiness level, this can be very dangerous, because it will decrease the symptoms of an actual problem. I so wish we had done both right off the bat, but we just didn't know any better.

If your DS is anything like mine, giving him a job that earns respect of the family will go a long way. Teach him a few routines that genuinly make a difference to the younger sibs. With younger siblings, I imagine you have lots to praise about how responsible he is with them. Make sure he overhears you praising specific good things he did with them to earn your respect. I would also try trials where you train him in specific routines where he role models for the younger, and then you can praise him for being a good role model, directly and to others in his hearing when you can pretend he isn't supposed to hear.

(((((Hugs)))))))

In the end, remember that whatever you are feeling is most likely totally transparent to DS, so make sure you are firm about the negative, but blossoming with the positive!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Yup!
I'm thinking that in other families folks don't wax nostalgic about the various behavior mod instruments used over the years, but in our house we do!

Love and More Love,
Grinity