Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Tutors / Mentors

My son has just been tested recently as part of admissions into a gifted charter school. While the test showed he was in the profoundly gifted range (99.9%) on the Stanford Binet 5 the lottery drawing prevented him from having a spot. So he is going to a very good public school. The principal's bio said she has certification in gifted education so I am hoping she will be open to working with us.

What I'm wondering is if anyone has had any experience with private tutors to provide enrichment outside of school? My son is extemely interested in Science and Math so I thought this might be a good idea.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Well there's a good news/bad news story, yes?

So many districts don't even have gifted programs, but your's does, so that is a good thing because it means that the political will to meet these special educational needs exists.

Here's 3 links that might help -
http://print.ditd.org/Mentor_guidebook.pdf

http://www.ditdservices.org/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=147&NavID=0_0

http://epgy.stanford.edu/

We haven't done outside enrichment except little bribes here and there to establish typing skills or prove that Math isn't really dull. Mostly it's because my DS gets worn out from attending school all day, and trying to put up with the boredom. Then there was the recent school change and gradeskip, and now he got a full plate of homework and is busy learning how to learn. I would ask for a meeting with the Principal if possible and see what kinds of accomidations they are willing to make within the school day. Some schools have allowed students to work online with EPGY classes, and some have provided mentors. I guess it really depends on -
A) what your son's needs are, and
B) what your son's wants are.

Post more of your story of how school has gone so far, ok? (hide the identifing detail, protect the innocent and the guilty)

Good luck,
Trin

Thanks. I was thinking that talking to the principal would be a good start. I'm just afraid I'm going to hear the same things that everyone hears. "All children are gifted." "Our program is flexible so all children are challenged." I'm sure the school hears all the time from parents that their child is so bright that it goes in one ear and out the other. So I'm trying to figure out what to do. By the way, he is 5 so he's starting kindergarten.

The other thing that would be nice is to have some parents locally that are going through the same things we are to see what they are doing. Even if it's just to get the kids together. Any hints on this?

Hi ConnorsDad-

I think you should go ahead and share your son's test scores with the school and see what happens. If they try to tell you that they see a lot of PG kids, you know they can't have any idea about levels of giftedness. Personally, I believe there is a bump in the bell curve that has more PG kidlets on earth than statistics suggest, but even so, 99.9th percentile is very rare indeed. It is highly unlikely that you will find another child at your Connor's level in his entire school, never mind his classroom. Makes it tough to find true peers.

Nevertheless, I do know of some PG kids who thrive in traditional schools. I think you should be bold and cautiously optimistic, and see what accommodations are offered.

Here's a piece I did on grade skipping:
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art27061.asp

I also have an article about mentoring here: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art42217.asp

I hope you find these helpful.

As far as getting together with other gifted families, there are several options. First of all, you may be lucky enough to find gifted playmates through school. One on one playdates are the BEST way to forge friendships, and I recommend that you arrange these as tandem parent/child meetings at first. Five year olds can be fickle, and it may take a few closely supervised sessions to get the kids used to each other and playing comfortably. Small interest based groups are also great for developing relationships, and you can form a science club if that's what your son is into right now. I don't want to drown you in my scribblings, but take a look at this one on interest based clubs:
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art10774.asp

Finally, I encourage you to consider applying to the Davidson Young Scholar Program. I didn't believe in the value of true intellectual peers until I saw my son at his first Davidson gathering several years ago. It really opened my eyes. These kids experience life so differently; it really does help when they are able to connect with similar kids. That's not to say that all their playmates have to be gifted and profoundly so, just that it is a different sort of connection and very rich.

best wishes-

Hints - for Meeting other families
*Join your State Gifted Association and attend their meetings. They may have "Saturday Enrichment" programs.
*Check if any nearby Universitys sponser "Enrichment Programs."
*Chess clubs, Lego clubs, Odessy of the Mind, Destination Imagination - (Check out Karen Roger's book: Re-forming Gifted Education for other enrichment opportunities- it will also help you talk/listen to your Principle down the road)
*Hang out at the Library and snoop around looking for other 5 year olds who love the type of books your son loves. Get to know the libriarian. See if they will sponser a Parent-child book discussion club for 5-9 year olds based on some books your son really likes. See if they have a game night.
*Local Museams may have "kids day" activities, great for meeting like minded parents.

Does any of this sound like your cup of tea?
Trin

Talk and listen anyway. Share the scores, and select a few stories to share that show your childs love of learning. Bring in some of his favorite books, and any math worksheets you have in his handwriting. Decide if you want to ask for a gradeskip, or a partial gradeskip. ((Genius Denied, A Nation Decieved, and Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, are all good books for this.)) If you get the usual "Bull-oany" then you know that you have to think very carefully about your alternatives, which are:
1) keep school for 'fun' and do some serious academics at home. Your son is young enought that you can get him in the habit of doing 30 or 40 minutes of real academics at his readiness level at home. How much time you can spend depends on how worn out he is from behaving while bored at school, and his personality. The main thing is to make it regular, and center stage, as in, this is not optional - every child needs to learn how to learn. At this age you may be able to do the teaching yourself, or you can hire a tutor. Just make sure that school really is 'fun' for your son.
2) homeschooling
3) private school
4) gradeskip

Even if the Principal isn't helpful, you may get to have little benifits like being able to observe the various teachers in other grades and help choose them.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

My DS is PG and attends a private school - so I expect our accomodations are a bit unusual. However, it works really well, so it might be worth asking about.

The school allows him to leave the regular classroom 3 hours a week to work with the private tutor. It has worked really well.

She has worked with him on everything from math to motor skills and social skills depending on what is going on at school at the time. Best of all to me, she has a presence in the school anyway - tutoring other kids - so she is able to keep an eye on him during stressful times.

Anyway - we find that our kids aren't interested in enrichment at home on weekdays. Too much homework and they end up burned out on school by the end of the day. We have done some enrichment on the weekend with ambitious art projects and some physics lessons - but the tutor during the school day works best for us.

Mary

Thanks to everyone and what great advice. We plan on pursuing the Davidson Institute. I'm hoping they can give us advice on strategies to use with the school.

We figured kindergarten would end up being more social and fun and hope to supplement his education at home or find a tutor. We purchased some 2nd and 3rd grade math workbooks and he's blowing through those. But I think he'd do even better working with a tutor. Is it necessary to find a tutor that works with gifted kids?

He is taking the Wiat II on Wednesday this week. We decided that we could be more effective advocates for him if we had additional evidence not to mention it would help getting him into the DYS program. Schools seem to be more interested in achievement scores than IQ.

With regards to enrichment at home does anyone else have a problem being the one offering the enrichment? My son excels when he works with teachers or testers (I think he likes the attention) but with us he really is not interested in studying. We do our best to make it interesting or entertaining but he is never that enthusiastic. If we take him to museums or let him determine what he wants to learn then it works. But sitting down doing math worksheets or reading is not a big hit. I guess that is why we are looking at tutors. I have contacts at the local university so I might look there for students that might be interested in working with him. He LOVES science. Anything science related he eats up.

I'm reluctant to bring this up but we do have another option for school that we have been hesitant to pursue. There is a program in our public school system that is only for PG kids. The concern we have is it is in a very bad school. Low scores for the general population. They have taken guns away from elementary school students. Had lockdowns at the schools while the police search for criminals in the neighborhood. It is in a high crime neighborhood with a growing violent gang influence. We would be reluctant to go to any school activities at night due to the crime in the neighborhood. As much as we think the education might be what he needs the safety issue outweighs the benefits for us. Any comments?

Hi ConnorsDad,
I think that teaching one's own child is a bit of a learning experience for the parents as well as the child. There is a movement in homeschooling called "unschooling" that suggests that you do just as your child wishes, and determine what he wants to learn, with the idea being that eventually he will want to learn something badly enought that the "boring" jobs will be "worth his while." While it seems like this would work for a full time homeschooled child, or for a child who is being reasonably accomidated at school, I don't think it is the answer for kids who are going to stay in regular programs with their agemates. Those kids really need a dominant parent who has very high expectations. My DH and I perhaps could have pulled it off if someone had warned us earlier, but I doubt we would have believed. It can take quite an effort if it doesn't "come naturally." A friend of mine told me that you can not look to your child for reassurance, you have to have a plan you believe in and be able to lead. Yucky, but true! Look around at the parents and children around you, and peek at them from this perspective.

For some reason I was happy to boss my kid around regarding "how to interact with Grandma" but hesitant to demand worksheets. I wanted learning to be fun and something his natural love of would drive him forward. I wanted him to take the lead. If this sounds like your family, then the physical risks of the PG school are probably (much) smaller than the emotional risks of being left behind with agmates and "in-class enrichment." On the other hand, if you believe that children can't know what is best for them, and need to do dull skill building things and naturally want to follow a strong leader, then it seems like the raised eyebrow and "back to your worksheets young man" would work once you got the hang of it.

As for using a tutor to get around having to be in a leadership position with your young man, I suspect it would only be a temporary kind of thing, unless the tutor himself has a lot of natural charisma. Sure, in the begining the newness of the situation will bring out some amazingly good behavior, but after a while this "leadership" problem will reappear. If the tutor is working in a situation of "my dad'll kill me if I don't really make an effort" then they can be chummy and have a great time. If the situation is "be free my child" then soon enough the child will want to "be free" of the stuff that doesn't come easily - and there you have it - underachievment and tons of stress all around.

I sure wish that someone had effectivly explained to DH and I that in order to be an effictive parent, you do have to accept the role of being the grown up. I'm exaggerating, of course, but apparently the act of parenting brings up every unhealed bit of our pasts to be examined or to bite you. When I was a kid, I thought that I knew better than everyone. ((no suprise there - LOL!)) I couldn't wait to be a parent and show the world that by being sensitive and thoughful, one could raise an egalitarian child. There were plenty of parenting books around that agreed with me, and the books that didn't agree with me somehow couldn't penetrate my "i know better" shield. I'd have to say that it has been a mixed blessing.

Lots has gone well. But the big drawback, is that he feels "entitled" to come home and relax after a hard day of school working hard to suppress 75% of his personality, and being blamed because the 25% is still "too much." Not to mention how dull school can be when you already have the information. The only thing left is the dull drill, which everyone has to do, it's not the only learning task for most kids. So we ended up in a private school with a grade skip. He misses his friends, and we miss the money, but there is an overall feeling of peace and satisfaction that comes when a PG kid gets to work hard at school, master a ton of homework, do his house jobs, and then kick back with "World of Warcraft" feeling trimuphant. When people look at us in wonder, at why would one do this to an eleven year old child - I say "He likes and needs to carry big rocks."

Well, I hope this helps, and that I haven't wasted your time. this is the ultimate case of "do as I say, not as I did" so if one of our parents who actually made this work would chime in, I'd sure appreciate it.

Go see the PG school. I'm not going to blame you about your safety concerns, but I do encourage you to meet the teachers and talk to the kids and other parents and see how you feel. A friend of mine recently made the same choice, and was able to feel comfortable by doing the driving back and forth.

Good luck and keep in touch,
Trinity

Hi Connersdad.

We did use academically talented high school students as math tutors for our kids when they were younger. We weren�t paying that much (twice the current babysitting rate), so we didn�t critique the quality of instruction too harshly, although I do believe the first tutor was average and the second one was extremely good. Our kids enjoyed spending time with a teenager and working beyond grade level in math. We were pleased that the tutors were such exceptional role models and believe some of their positive traits were adopted by our kids.

That is a great idea about the talented high school students. I can check with some of the highschool kids in our neighborhood. I'm also going to contact one of the Davidson Fellowship winner's mother. I just found out she is a friend of my Aunt. They don't live near us but I'm sure she will have some good advice.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. As I said he'll take the Wiat tomorrow. He had his first day of kindergarten yesterday where they did some type of valuation but I have not heard what yet. I'll post how he did on the Wiat and what happens after our first conference witht he school.

Good luck on the WIAT II tomorrow. We just took it less than two weeks ago and I mentioned some things to consider in my earlier post today re: testing now or later for 4 year old.

FYI to everyone. My son did well on the WIAT. I don't have the final scores but the tester said he definitely did what he needed to do to meet the YS programs requirements. In addition we just got a call today from the Charter School for the Gifted he was on the wait list for. He starts tomorrow. I'll post my experiences.

Wonderful news!

So glad, Conner's Dad!
This is the school he originally didn't lottory into? If so, what a relief! Terrific that your district has such! Here's hoping for smooth sailing. ((glasses clinking))
Keep us posted ((big smile))
Trinity

Here's a quick update. The school is definitely a large step up from public school and it is the one he was in the lottery for. The kids are receiving a more advanced curriculum. The teacher ratio is great (8-1) and it's so nice that he is in a place that acknowledges that gifted kids do exist and require special education.

They stress reading which is good since that is where he is probably weakest but the math might be a little simple for him. I'm thinking the teacher is still evaluating what she has and will customize as needed. We do like the teacher and feel confident in her ability.

I'll add more info about the school as the year progresses and will post my thoughts on the DYS when and if he is accepted.

((Happy Dance))
Great News ConnorsDad!
I have a good feeling here.
Trinity