Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Totally dumb question...

What or which are "maths facts" ?

I know it sounds silly, but can a child know how to do sums or rest or multiplication, etc without understanding 'math facts'.
What exactly does this expression mean?

Ahhh! I thought it would be a thorough understanding of the concepts, like for example a+b=b+a or a+0=a, etc.

Thanks for the clarification.

I posted about this elsewhere on this board. Once a fact is known, it should be drilled until it is second nature. There should be no pause, no hesitation in bringing it up or using it. Numbers, problems, proofs, etc, all fall in this method.

Math should be known like one knows a piano piece or a dance or a combative - it should just flow.

If you do less, then you are not doing your best.

For us, a good strategy has been to learn to calculate the answer quickly. Just using the facts to solve problems naturally aids in memorization over time. Drilling on the facts in isolation was not producing the desired result.

Same here. Drill and kill is counterproductive for some kids. And straight memorization isn't the only way--or the best way for some kids--to know facts fast.

Our DS had to decide it was worth it to him to learn the facts. Now *he's* the one driving the math facts bus, and we're having a lot more success.

Obviously kids must learn the math facts and know them fast. But "if you do less, then you are not doing your best" definitely isn't the way we're approaching it.

(It probably also helps us that DS4 is eager to learn the times tables now, so DS7 is driven to learn them before his little brother! Sibling rivalry can be a good thing! )

Anyone know a game (online flash game or downloadable game is okay) that is akin to Timz Attack? DS loves it. He's nail his add facts too if he has a fun game to play like TA.

JB

Timez Attack is really fun for our boys. Picture DS5.5 using the number pad on my right, and DS2.5 pressing "W" (move forward) while I control the mouse... both sitting on my lap. It's a little expensive, but our boys love it and it's a nice reward for when we have good days.

JB

I know of lots of online games for addition facts, but nothing with the high production values of TA.

I'd love to find one, too. DS4 would be TOTALLY into that right now! He plays TA, but he's not really fast enough at multiplication for that yet, so DS7 winds up "helping" a lot...

Hey, how do you like the for-pay version of TA? We just have the freebie. Is it worth the extra money? It didn't seem like it to me, since my boys seem happy with the free "dungeon" level. But I have yet to hear from someone I know who has the for-pay version.

Whaddya think of it?

DS likes to use Flashmaster http://www.flashmaster.com/

It does + - � �

DS was hooked right after the first level so I knew it was a hit. If your son didn't seem interested, don't get the full version. There are three unique levels (Caveman, Robots, Dragons) and then after you finish them, you select which monsters you fight during the next times table. Our only real complaint is that the tables, IMO, aren't taught correctly. For example, when you learn the 5s they will give you the problem of 5 x 2 = 10, but they illustrate that by counting by 2s. The virtual manipulatives you pick up will shoot out 5 sets of 2 so you go 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Then when you learn 5 x 3 you are counting 3, 6, 9, 12, 15. I would have rather that it be changed around so that if you are on the 5s, you are always counting by 5s. That makes much more sense to me. Show it as 2 x 5 (5, 10), and then 3 x 5 (5, 10, 15).

It does an excellent job of measuring knowledge and when you take the challenge test if you miss a question, it only makes you review that math fact. Usually that's because DS types it wrong...

The boys absolutely love the game though.

JB

Timez Attack looked cool, but the free version crashed my computer. Do you have any performance problems with the full version?

So if my kids do like the free version, you think the extra levels are worth the $40? Or should I save my money since they're already happy?

(Always looking to save a buck...)

Sorry Kriston I misread your original post. I thought that you were saying that your kids didn't like it.

Well, IMO, $40 was a steep price for it. The two other levels are pretty neat and there is a *wow* factor particularly with the robot level. DS sort of knew his times table already, but this is doing a pretty good job reinforcing the facts to the point where before playing he races up to his room to his times chart to "review" before the game. You can hear him shout all the way downstairs! "5! 10! 15!...."

For us it was worth it. I think it's better than a lot of the games out there that are all flash/action with no real focus on the learning part.

Cathy, no problems with the full version, but I didn't have any problem with the free version either. If you email tech support they do get back to you. (DS loved it so much I was asking for ALL operators!) PM if you want. I doubt I'll be much help, but I do know a thing or two about 'puters.

JB

Yes, Cathy, I had no trouble with the free version either. It sounds like you might need some tech support.

Thanks, JBD. I appreciate your BTDT advice!

JBDad, I think you're running into the multiplication conundrum. In Rightstart math for ex: 5x3 is translated to 5 taken 3 times ie 5, 10, 15 (5+5+5).

In Everyday math, 5x3 is 5 sets of 3, ie 3 taken 5 times or 3, 6, 9 ,12, 15, (3+3+3+3+3).

In Singapore math, 4x3 is represented as 4 groups of 3 rabbits ie 3 taken 4 times or 3,6,9, 12.

Whenever I bring this up, people say "but the commutative property!!" But in EM or RS for example, if they ask for an array to demonstrate 5x3, only one answer is given.

Yup. And since this game is focused on levels per number, I would think that it would be easier to learn the skip-counting technique for the current number. I didn't notice it until DW pointed it out to me.

The boys love it in any case. And conceptually DS5.5 knows what multiplication represents.

JB

It does seem like they ought to be consistent and have the skip counting be for the level the child is on. It seems like it would reinforce the point more effectively if doing 3x5 on the 3s level meant you counted by 3s, and doing 3x5 on the 5 level meant you counted by 5s.

Still, it's a minor quibble for what is overall a very good product, I think. (Especially for free!)

Exactly.

JB

Has anybody tried the NintendoDS? I think there is a game for mathematics, but I am not certain.

DD has just learned at the school how to write the numbers and now she is eager to make sums in an exercise book. It usually takes her longer to write the answer than to get it but she looks so cute

I know the BrainAge games have some math components. Here's a list from BrainAge 2:

http://www.brainage.com/launch/howto.jsp?activity=mathrecall

Warning - NintendoDS Brain Age games are highly addictive! (And you look silly yelling "rock" "paper" or "scissors" at the little thing.)

Oh - here's a math one (it doesn't appear to have great comments):

http://www.amazon.com/Math-Play-Nintendo-DS/dp/B000T5MS9C