Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Too good to be true? Plans for next year....

I just spoke with the principal at our school about next fall. I called him to get the ball rolling, as they said they wanted to test son next fall and see where he is for placement/planning. I was sure that they would try to blow me off, forget about it or whatever. But, surprise!

Principal said that they just had a discussion about my son at the primary grade staff meeting this week. The second grade teacher is already aware of the needs. The first grade teacher apparently reported "substantial gains" in reading. They agreed that son needs to be tested BEFORE school starts so they can plan for resources to meet his needs. I almost fell off my chair!

They want the school psychologist to test him using a standardized achievement test, in early August. Then get together BEFORE school starts to discuss placement for both reading AND math. The principal said that they need to know what son needs so they can "plan for what resources the second grade teacher will need."

OMG! I feel like I hit the lottery, but I'm reminding myself that I haven't turned in the winning ticket yet! This just sounds too good to be true. I'm hoping that they will be able to accomodate him. Although the home schooling in math is moving along, it's been difficult to juggle our schedules and my husband is really compromising his own work by spending every morning at home. We will continue to do what we need to do for our son, but it would be so great if he could just be in school all day next year. Keep your fingers crossed for us!

oh I totally understand. If you can get it in writing go for it. what I do anytime someone says something to me in a conversation (ie the principal or someone on Mite's IEP team) is zip am email summarizing the information shared and asking a question. For example, I would summarize the above and then ask, "Where will the testing take place and are there any special preparations I need DS to do" or something to that effect.

The person has to respond to questions and by doing so is confirming the conversation in writing.

It has worked every time for me.

congrats!

I am amazed at all the progress the people on here have made this year and I think it is due in part to the wonderful information and support we give to each other. I also feel we are wonderful advocates for our kids!

Debbie,
that sounds good. I would be cautiously optimistic, as schools often say things that sound a lot like we want to hear, but mean very different things. That's probably true of any negotiation, I guess.

Is he in school for part of the day now, and homeschooling just Math?

The timetable sounds much better than the alternative of testing in the Fall. But be aware, that they maybe going through the motions in order to have ammo to say, "see we tested him, he doesn't have any special needs." Sad to say, but it did happen to me. I hope it doesn't happen to you.

I do echo all that Willa Gayles says - very well put!

Good luck,
Trinity

Well, here's a little update along with a question.

The principal spoke with my husband the other day and let him know that the psychologist doesn't want to use the WIAT or other similar achievement tests. Makes sense that what we need to test him with is some out-of-level test to see just what he knows and is ready to learn. The principal is checking around to see just what the best assessment might be. Any suggestions? Our main concern is that he be assessed for readiness to start 3rd grade math in the fall. The principal wants to test for reading as well.

My concern about using some standardized assessment is that the results won't be processed and back before school starts if they don't test him until early August. They are considering using some "broad based curriculum assessment" that they typically give to a child coming in from another school district.

Anyone have ideas or suggestions for a particular assessment(s)?

Hi Debbie,
I do agree that the achievement tests don't seem to offer much by way of placement. If you had the time, I love the idea of NWEA's MAP test, which is used for NCLB testing but is taken on computers so that as the child tests correctly, it "levels up" and attempts to spend a majority of the childs time answering questions that are "just right." How cool does that sound? Problem is that it can't be done over the internet, only at testing centers. They were very nice when I called them, and maybe if you hurry, you can find a "local" school that is giving them this time of year, and your son can "sit in" - the results are availible with days, and the information booklet you get is very very specific. The tests were designed to be an aid to teachers to know how to reach each individual child. It tests Math and Reading.

http://www.nwea.org/assessments/

If that doesnt' pan out, I would look into a "portfolio" approach. That means getting access to the schools "scope and sequence" for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade math, and basically submiting samples of his work that demonstrate that he can do what your district requires teachers to teach in 2nd grade. That way if 3rd grade isn't enough, you'll know it before the school year starts.

Does your district use State tests? If so, see if you can have him attend your 3rd grade and 4th grade testing days. they may want him to take the 2nd grade test also, which is fine if they don't start with that, he would be so insulted/dissapointed you may loose his cooperation. You will have to explain to your son that there will be plenty of items he hasn't got a clue about, and to the school that he may well score worse on the 2nd grade material than the 3rd or 4th grade material. If the material fails to engage the child, the child may not be able to muster the energy to check vigilantly at this age. This is normal for the maturity level.

Our school seemed to have past year tests floating around that they used for various unknown purposes. They maybe able to test him individually and see what he is doing. In some ways, no matter how bad the test, if it's a test that they are familiar with then it's the right test.

Best Wishes,
You are in my prayers -
Trinity

I'm not sure if it helps, but by way of achievement test, our county's Highly Gifted program administered the Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement (KTEA), where the scoring also gives a grade equivalency.

I'm not sure if this applies to the KTEA or just other achievement test, but my understanding is that when you see a "grade equavalence" what is means is:

Your child in 2nd grade, scored as well as an average child in 8th grade did if that 8th grader had been given this 2nd grade test.

So it means that the child's needs aren't being met by giving 2nd material, but it doesn't mean that the child is ready for 8th grade level material. YWIM?

I do agree that there is a serious need for achievement tests that give specific information about placement, and also tells where the gaps actually are. The alternative is to give every end of year test in every subject until one reaches a grade level where the child finds material that they need to learn. Of course there must be some balance between these two extreames, yes?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

We've spoken more with the principal and he has decided to pretty much put together a sort of curriculum based assessment so that it will (hopefully) reflect my son's current level in relation to what they actually teach at this school.

The dilemma was that IQ tests are just going to show ability but not where he is knowledge base-wise and achievement tests just show how he compares to other kids (like what you are describing Trinity). So for right now the plan is that next week we will show the principal a portfolio of what we've been doing at home (which includes some of the curriculum based assessments that are part of the school based Saxon program) and then the teacher and/or the principal will be administering a more structured assessment in August before school starts.

We are still hopeful for 3rd grade math placement. I don't care how they decide on it, I just hope that's what they decide! He will be back in the same place as this past January, if he has to start out in second grade math.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll let you know how things work out!

Hi everyone.
I thought I would pull this old thread out and update you on how our advocacy is paying off! So far, so good - the year is off to a good start and school isn't even in session yet.

MrWiggly will be meeting with the principal tomorrow to start a math assessment. The principal had the 3rd grade teacher put together an assessment, so son will be doing an out-of-level test to determine what he's ready to learn! The principal reviewed his plan with me today: he will be administering the assessment, looking for accuracy/knowledge but also how son approaches the test and more subjective info to help with planning for the new school year. After the assessment is completed, we'll meet and look at options then decide what works best to meet MrWiggly's needs and are within the capabilities of staff/resources at school. Principal said he really wants to be able to meet son's needs, even though we were able to homeschool last year. He knows it wasn't the best option for us. We are definitely hoping they can meet his needs, too!

I'll let you know how things fall in place and whether they might just subject accelerate him into 3rd grade math. School starts on the 21st, so we should know by then! Wish us luck!

wow! sounds like an important turning point for everyone. I'll keep my fingers crossed, prayers up to date and positive vibes flowing MrWiggly's way!!!