Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment SB-V interpretation question

Hi folks,

I�ve lurked on & off for a few months while waiting for my 3rd grade DD�s SB-V scores to come in. To update, she was screened for her school�s gifted program last year in 2nd grade with OLSAT scores:

SS verbal 144 (99th percentile)
SS nonverbal 122 (91st percentile)
and total 135 (99th percentile � for either age or grade?).

Her SB-V score TOTALS were brought down by 2 very low subset scores, but she did make it into her school�s gifted program with a FSIQ of 126, also with accommodations for classroom if needed (advocated for by me and written in to the GIEP�s SDI section). Regular classroom accommodations include independent pacing, independent study, pre-testing, special activities and the like as determined by her classroom teacher, who is very supportive in general. (the gifted pull-out program is a half day once a week, and seems to work with the classroom teachers).

I suppose my QUESTION is for Dottie, and others who have any input. I feel comfortable enough on the road I�m starting down, but thought that my DD�s FSIQ might not be truly representative, given the two low scores. They are as follows:

Fluid Reasoning:
NV SS=13, %=84 / V SS=15, %=95 / Total=123, %=94
Knowledge:
NV SS=16, %=98 / V SS=17, %=99 / Total T=137, %=99
Quantitative Reasoning:
NV SS=15, %=95 / V SS=11, %=63 / Total=116, %=86
Visual-Spatial Reasoning:
NV SS=12, %=75 / V SS=15, %=95 / Total=120, %=91
Working Memory:
NV SS=11, %=63 / V SS=14, %=91 / Total=115, %=84
Totals:
NV SS=122, %=93 / V SS=127, %=96 / Total (FSIQ)=126, %=96

I don�t see her as HG+ (so maybe now I should switch boards � any suggestions?), but I do think that she may just test better w/ WISC-IV in the future if we need to identify more clearly. I�ve read about ways to interpret WISC scores without using working memory for gifted kids, but haven�t come across similar info on the SB-V. That Non Verbal Working Memory score (63rd percentile) and Verbal Quantitative Reasoning score (63rd percentile) were just SO much lower than their counterparts � is this unusual?

She did have Woodcock Johnson Achievement testing too, which showed several grades above level for most everything (grade 7.8 in Aquired? Knowledge). That helped get her into the program...

Thanks for any input,

OliEli's mom - there is an alternative scoring for the SBV. It's a report you can download similar to the WISCIV technical report. If you have trouble finding it, let me know.

Nothing to add to the score discussion, but I will add my voice to the crowd saying that if you find help here and if you have stuff to contribute to the rest of us, please stay. There's no IQ check at the door! (Thank goodness!) If you get stuff out of being here, then you belong here!

Dottie - I'm shaky on the specifics since it's something I looked up for a friend last year. It's not the extended scoring. There was maybe 2-3 different ways to score it (using only some of the subtests) to get an alternate score similar to the GAI for the WISCIV. I'll see if I can find the PDF and report back.

Wow! That's big! That would definitely change my son's score--and many other kids' scores!

It makes sense...

Dottie - I emailed you some pdfs on the SBV.

So far I have already done both the gifted composite and nonverbal gifted scores. DS5s scores on both of those is lower since he got 17 and 19 on the NVWM and VWM respectively.

If you want to post the formulas for more of them I'd love to do some math.

LOL!

How about the one for "Kids ASKING long questions?" My DS7 scored a 20 out of 19 on that one yesterday, I'm sure!

That was really fun. I love math.

The first 8 composites were all over DS5's FSIQ while the remaining 3 were all under the FSIQ. Prior to doing any calculations I actually wrote down which ones I thought would be high and the ones I thought would be relatively lower. I knew that the Cultural and Acquired knowledge would probably have lower composites. I didn't think the Trial and Error Problem Solving would be as high as it was. I think my view is clouded by watching his perfection tendencies and frustration.

DS5's highest composite was in Abstract Conceptualization. He got 19's in all the subtests. Sounds right to me.

Thanks for typing those out Dottie.

okay I'm lost .... I opened up DS's Stanford Achievement Test from 2nd grade on the county website and the titles of the categories don't seem to match up with the acronyms has
Reading Vocab Percentile 93
Reading Comprehension Percentile 99
Problem Solving Percentile 99
Math Procedure Percentile 97
and the he can blame it on me Spelling Percentile 87
He did the W thing test (see you all so have not integrated me yet lol) and had a FSIQ of 139 they have that as 99th so he was accepted to gifted but I wonder a bit since some have said it should take a long time and have breaks but I think it was about an hour at best. I also was very surprised he "passed" as the school where he took was having the roof replaced so the pounding and tar smell bugged me trying to read while I waited so was quite surprised that DS said it didn't bother him and the test was fun. From reading what a lot of you all have been talking about I feel a bit like the bad gifted parent. I knew he needed some more challenge but unfortunately a 1st grade class of 36 students and teachers that were not very supportive topped off by a 2nd grade teacher that did try without even being asked to help the faster kids. She was sending the 4 advanced kids to do 3rd grade FCAT explorer and to "visit" with the third grade class in her pod. Even with that there would still be times very often where the "yellow team" would spend and hour just reading or something waiting for the other groups to get their work done. School was easy for him he didn't have to work and trying to get him to "get" pride in his work was usually a no go unless it was something he initiated doing not "boring" homework. Anyway last year he did very well academically but had a big issue socially.
We went to LA for a month for him to shoot a movie and when he came back there was a big outsider issue. His teacher not only "went off" on the class but also helped crack the issue by having ds show the class how to use his big boy camera (he also writes and directs short films) and the class broke into groups and filmed them doing the Aesop's Fables. It is really big deal for that social issue to be addressed as this class is together till middle school.
I'm sooo rambling I guess I am just wondering if I should bother to try to have him retest to see if he is actually DYS (ohh look I know one lol) and see if there are programs that might help him. He is and always has been the youngest in his class and it does show as teachers always will say the first conference that he is immature and then I tell them that he turned age the weekend before school started where as the majority of his class are turning a year older for example he just turned 9 and 2/3rds of the 4th graders in his class are or will be 10 by Christmas break. (Added issue right now till the 9 day rehires come in and we get our gifted unit back he is in a 4th and 5th grade class of 36 GT kids so he is in a class where he is just turned 9 and then goes up to 12)
All this ranting boils down to my concerns
1) Lack of overall concern about doing his best and self challenging except for things he likes.
2) Few peers that are reading and writing motivated majority of the GT kids seem to be more into math where he is the "weird" one even in an all gifted class that will take a book out to recess.
3) Social issues mainly one "mean girls" leader that seems to get a kick out of having the class alienate DS and his one real friend. (Mean Girl's Mom is a bit of a nutter last year teacher told me the girls Mom was even blaming DS for her DD's lower reading scores which was pretty amusing when DS hit the ceiling on the FCAT Reading(that's what you call perfect score right?)

Anyway I think (once the grades get their classes back) he has a great learning environment so would being DYS even help the 3 main concerns so is it worth it to see if he meets the level if retested without the construction.. And back on topic.....Why are the Stanford numbers I have diffrent ??? LOL