Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 434 guests, and 31 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Gingtto, SusanRoth
    11,429 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
    #242790 05/24/18 11:57 AM
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Dude Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Great, in-depth article about how the class in the 0.1-10% range of household incomes is, through collective choices made on an individual level, creating barriers to upwards mobility. Although many of them got there during a time of social mobility and meritocracy, that has changed drastically over the last generation, and their children, who are by no means guaranteed to have the same ability levels as they did, will find it easy to compete with gifted children raised outside this class due to the barriers they are erecting. The writer is a member of this class, and the article is written from his perspective.

    The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,051
    Likes: 1
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,051
    Likes: 1
    I read this article also, and found it thought-provoking. Worth reading. The author is, I think, more accurately described as a legatee of the old American aristocracy, who is now a member of the new aristocracy.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Excellent article.

    Worth calling out is Part 4, The Privilege of an Education. Some of the more chastening quotes from that section are below to whet the appetite of any people considering reading the article.

    Quote
    My 16-year-old daughter is sitting on a couch, talking with a stranger about her dreams for the future. We’re here, ominously enough, because, she says, “all my friends are doing it.” For a moment, I wonder whether we have unintentionally signed up for some kind of therapy. The professional woman in the smart-casual suit throws me a pointed glance and says, “It’s normal to be anxious at a time like this.” She really does see herself as a therapist of sorts. But she does not yet seem to know that the source of my anxiety is the idea of shelling out for a $12,000 “base package” of college-counseling services whose chief purpose is apparently to reduce my anxiety. Determined to get something out of this trial counseling session, I push for recommendations on summer activities. We leave with a tip on a 10-day “cultural tour” of France for high schoolers. In the college-application business, that’s what’s known as an “enrichment experience.” When we get home, I look it up. The price of enrichment: $11,000 for the 10 days.

    Quote
    According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent.

    Quote
    Only 2.2 percent of the nation’s students graduate from nonsectarian private high schools, and yet these graduates account for 26 percent of students at Harvard and 28 percent of students at Princeton.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Jul 2014
    Posts: 602
    T
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    T
    Joined: Jul 2014
    Posts: 602
    I need to quibble with the class designations a bit, which are clearly drawn from 19th century England.
    The 0.1 percent are very much comparable to the English aristocracy, who held the real power, most of the real wealth and who could endanger their position really only by high treason.
    The 9.9 are the landed gentry, who needed to constantly ensure that their comfortable lifestyle was shored up by good investments, advantageous marriages and good connections to help place the younger sons in respectable professions. Illness or banktruptcy could wipe them out. And yes, they were very much considered middle class.
    Still not a compliment to any society to be like 19th century England from a social cohesion standpoint, but it’s when they built a military, industrial and cultural empire...
    I wish I could just watch comfortably from the European sidelines how it all will shake out, but sadly, if the US sneezes, the rest of the world will fall really sick, as the saying goes.

    Last edited by Tigerle; 05/25/18 04:50 AM.
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 1
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Excellent article.

    Worth calling out is Part 4, The Privilege of an Education. Some of the more chastening quotes from that section are below to whet the appetite of any people considering reading the article.

    Quote
    My 16-year-old daughter is sitting on a couch, talking with a stranger about her dreams for the future. We’re here, ominously enough, because, she says, “all my friends are doing it.” For a moment, I wonder whether we have unintentionally signed up for some kind of therapy. The professional woman in the smart-casual suit throws me a pointed glance and says, “It’s normal to be anxious at a time like this.” She really does see herself as a therapist of sorts. But she does not yet seem to know that the source of my anxiety is the idea of shelling out for a $12,000 “base package” of college-counseling services whose chief purpose is apparently to reduce my anxiety. Determined to get something out of this trial counseling session, I push for recommendations on summer activities. We leave with a tip on a 10-day “cultural tour” of France for high schoolers. In the college-application business, that’s what’s known as an “enrichment experience.” When we get home, I look it up. The price of enrichment: $11,000 for the 10 days.
    I've read that students writing about their summer travel does NOT impress admissions officers.

    Quote
    According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent.
    Measures of academic achievement such as SAT scores do rise with parental income, and Ivies are selecting from the right tail, so a substantial differential in representation by income group is to be expected for that reason alone. Another factor is that high-income parents are more likely to encourage their children to apply to more selective schools.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Excellent article.

    Worth calling out is Part 4, The Privilege of an Education. Some of the more chastening quotes from that section are below to whet the appetite of any people considering reading the article.

    Quote
    My 16-year-old daughter is sitting on a couch, talking with a stranger about her dreams for the future. We’re here, ominously enough, because, she says, “all my friends are doing it.” For a moment, I wonder whether we have unintentionally signed up for some kind of therapy. The professional woman in the smart-casual suit throws me a pointed glance and says, “It’s normal to be anxious at a time like this.” She really does see herself as a therapist of sorts. But she does not yet seem to know that the source of my anxiety is the idea of shelling out for a $12,000 “base package” of college-counseling services whose chief purpose is apparently to reduce my anxiety. Determined to get something out of this trial counseling session, I push for recommendations on summer activities. We leave with a tip on a 10-day “cultural tour” of France for high schoolers. In the college-application business, that’s what’s known as an “enrichment experience.” When we get home, I look it up. The price of enrichment: $11,000 for the 10 days.
    I've read that students writing about their summer travel does NOT impress admissions officers.

    Quote
    According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent.
    Measures of academic achievement such as SAT scores do rise with parental income, and Ivies are selecting from the right tail, so a substantial differential in representation by income group is to be expected for that reason alone. Another factor is that high-income parents are more likely to encourage their children to apply to more selective schools.

    Did you read the article?


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 1
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Measures of academic achievement such as SAT scores do rise with parental income, and Ivies are selecting from the right tail, so a substantial differential in representation by income group is to be expected for that reason alone. Another factor is that high-income parents are more likely to encourage their children to apply to more selective schools.

    Did you read the article?
    From the article:
    Quote
    We are the people of good family, good health, good schools, good neighborhoods, and good jobs. We may want to call ourselves the “5Gs” rather than the 9.9 percent. We are so far from the not-so-good people on all of these dimensions, we are beginning to resemble a new species. And, just as in Grandmother’s day, the process of speciation begins with a love story—or, if you prefer, sexual selection.

    The polite term for the process is assortative mating. The phrase is sometimes used to suggest that this is another of the wonders of the internet age, where popcorn at last meets butter and Yankees fan finds Yankees fan. In fact, the frenzy of assortative mating today results from a truth that would have been generally acknowledged by the heroines of any Jane Austen novel: Rising inequality decreases the number of suitably wealthy mates even as it increases the reward for finding one and the penalty for failing to do so. According to one study, the last time marriage partners sorted themselves by educational status as much as they do now was in the 1920s.
    Assortative mating by education entails assortative mating by IQ, so the children of the top 10% are likely to have higher IQs, which is a big reason they compile the resumes needed to get into selective colleges.

    Richard Herrnstein wrote an article in the same magazine in 1971 that could have forecasted the findings of this article. Later he and Charles Murray expanded it into a book, "The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life".

    Education
    The Atlantic
    September 1971
    I.Q.
    by Richard Herrnstein

    Quote
    Classlessness is elusive because people vary and because they compete for gain—economic and otherwise. The tendency to respect, honor, remunerate, and perhaps even envy people who succeed is not only ingrained but is itself a source of social pressure to contribute to one’s limit … The premium given to lawyers, doctors, engineers, and business managers is not accidental, for those jobs are left to incompetents at our collective peril. There are simply fewer potentially competent physicians than barbers. The gradient of occupations is, then, a natural measure of value and scarcity. And beneath this gradient is a scale of inborn ability, which is what gives the syllogism its unique potency.

    It seems that we are indeed stuck with the conclusion of the syllogism. The data on I.Q. and social-class differences show that we have been living with an inherited stratification of our society for some time. The signs point to more rather than less of it in the future … The opportunity for social mobility across classes assures the biological distinctiveness of each class, for the unusual offspring—whether more or less able than his or her) closest relatives—would quickly rise above his family or sink below it, and take his place, both biologically and socially, with his peers.

    If this is a fair picture of the future, then we should be preparing ourselves for it instead of railing against its dawning signs. Greater wealth, health, freedom, fairness, and educational opportunity are not going to give us the egalitarian society of our philosophical heritage. It will instead give us a society sharply graduated, with ever greater innate separation between the top and the bottom, and ever more uniformity within families as far as inherited abilities are concerned. Naturally, we find this vista appalling, for we have been raised to think of social equality as our goal. The vista reminds us of the world we had hoped to leave behind—aristocracies, privileged classes, unfair advantages and disadvantages of birth. But it is different, for the privileged classes of the past were probably not much superior biologically to the downtrodden, which is why revolutions had a fair chance of success. By removing arbitrary barriers between classes, society has encouraged the creation of biological barriers. When people can freely take their natural level in society, the upper classes will, virtually by definition, have greater capacity than the lower.

    The full article is here. It begins with the syllogism cited above:
    Quote
    1) If differences in mental abilities are inherited, and
    2) If success requires those abilities, and
    3) If earnings and prestige depend on success,
    4) Then social standing (which reflects earnings and prestige) will be based to some extent on inherited differences among people.

    Joined: Mar 2017
    Posts: 97
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Mar 2017
    Posts: 97
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Excellent article.

    Worth calling out is Part 4, The Privilege of an Education. Some of the more chastening quotes from that section are below to whet the appetite of any people considering reading the article.

    Quote
    My 16-year-old daughter is sitting on a couch, talking with a stranger about her dreams for the future. We’re here, ominously enough, because, she says, “all my friends are doing it.” For a moment, I wonder whether we have unintentionally signed up for some kind of therapy. The professional woman in the smart-casual suit throws me a pointed glance and says, “It’s normal to be anxious at a time like this.” She really does see herself as a therapist of sorts. But she does not yet seem to know that the source of my anxiety is the idea of shelling out for a $12,000 “base package” of college-counseling services whose chief purpose is apparently to reduce my anxiety. Determined to get something out of this trial counseling session, I push for recommendations on summer activities. We leave with a tip on a 10-day “cultural tour” of France for high schoolers. In the college-application business, that’s what’s known as an “enrichment experience.” When we get home, I look it up. The price of enrichment: $11,000 for the 10 days.

    Quote
    According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent.

    Quote
    Only 2.2 percent of the nation’s students graduate from nonsectarian private high schools, and yet these graduates account for 26 percent of students at Harvard and 28 percent of students at Princeton.


    Along the line of the private school pipeline to elite colleges, it's apparently even more exclusive than most realize. Even within the private school community, there is a subset of elite boarding schools which yield even more outsized benefits when it comes to acceptance to the elite colleges.

    It's interesting the extent that these pathways to wealth and power are being determined at the middle school and high school level, not the college or professional level as is commonly discussed. And they're not being determined by effort but by whether or not one's parents choose the right private school and were able to pay for it.

    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by philly103
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Excellent article.

    Worth calling out is Part 4, The Privilege of an Education. Some of the more chastening quotes from that section are below to whet the appetite of any people considering reading the article.

    Quote
    My 16-year-old daughter is sitting on a couch, talking with a stranger about her dreams for the future. We’re here, ominously enough, because, she says, “all my friends are doing it.” For a moment, I wonder whether we have unintentionally signed up for some kind of therapy. The professional woman in the smart-casual suit throws me a pointed glance and says, “It’s normal to be anxious at a time like this.” She really does see herself as a therapist of sorts. But she does not yet seem to know that the source of my anxiety is the idea of shelling out for a $12,000 “base package” of college-counseling services whose chief purpose is apparently to reduce my anxiety. Determined to get something out of this trial counseling session, I push for recommendations on summer activities. We leave with a tip on a 10-day “cultural tour” of France for high schoolers. In the college-application business, that’s what’s known as an “enrichment experience.” When we get home, I look it up. The price of enrichment: $11,000 for the 10 days.

    Quote
    According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent.

    Quote
    Only 2.2 percent of the nation’s students graduate from nonsectarian private high schools, and yet these graduates account for 26 percent of students at Harvard and 28 percent of students at Princeton.


    Along the line of the private school pipeline to elite colleges, it's apparently even more exclusive than most realize. Even within the private school community, there is a subset of elite boarding schools which yield even more outsized benefits when it comes to acceptance to the elite colleges.

    It's interesting the extent that these pathways to wealth and power are being determined at the middle school and high school level, not the college or professional level as is commonly discussed. And they're not being determined by effort but by whether or not one's parents choose the right private school and were able to pay for it.


    Exactly.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Assortative mating by education entails assortative mating by IQ, so the children of the top 10% are likely to have higher IQs, which is a big reason they compile the resumes needed to get into selective colleges.

    Money buys expensive, not necessarily quality. And, like in any market, there are lemons in higher ed.

    I should also forewarn you, in case you’re putting all your eggs in the Ivy basket, that IQ isn’t universally high at selective colleges. In some cases, the children of Ivy alumni don’t fall in accepted gifted ranges. And that’s okay—the world isn’t universally gifted, and people are of equal value and dignity irrespective of their investment accounts or IQ.

    The most important measures of a person can’t be quantified by a single metric—character, leadership, ingenuity, courage, compassion, mercy—and I’m far more concerned about assortative matching on those dimensions than the mercenary ones. I think you’ll find most gifted people think similarly. There are a lot of middling affluent or bright people in the world; that’s not unique. But what is remarkable is someone who doesn’t get embroiled in status symbols, and instead lives out a life rich in meaning without constantly referring to the “scoreboard” for personal validation. This article is about precisely that.

    But I guess it’s the same story as the comparison between old money and nouveau riche. As the article indicates, genuinely talented people don’t spend time feeling superior about what they were born with, or engage in paranoid thought exercises about how to preserve their grasp on social supremacy when the barriers for other groups’ participation are finally removed; they get busy tackling the world’s toughest problems and being awesome. Part of that is acknowledging that the world has room for lots of talent and success, and so much the better the more people who share in it.

    Now, let’s talk about how to use all the big brains floating around here to ensure that all smart people, irrespective of starting positions, have the opportunity to use their talents. That’s worth discussing!


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 05/03/24 07:21 PM
    Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years
    by brilliantcp - 05/02/24 05:17 PM
    NAGC Tip Sheets
    by indigo - 04/29/24 08:36 AM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by Wren - 04/29/24 03:43 AM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5