Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy 2nd math skip? How fast to go?

Trying to think through DS8's math options for next year. This is his history:

2016-2017:
1st grader
2nd grade after school math (Beast Academy - in a physical classroom)
summer: did 3rd grade Beast Academy on his own to skip ahead because after school math pace was too slow

2017-2018: (this year)
2nd grader
3rd grade in-school math (subject accelerated)
4th grade after school math (Beast Academy)

Based on how easy the 4th grade Beast Academy is, we're starting to work on our own on the 5th grade series with the idea he can skip ahead next school year to Prealgebra at the after school academy.

So here's the two questions I'm facing...

1) After school math -- he's flying through it and it seems to be clicking. But there is some amazing, really fun math in there. Should we really be doing it this fast? Is that sad?

2) In school math -- he can test and SSA next year again which would make him a 3rd grader in 5th grade math. However, DS begged and cried for the first SSA but seems whatever about the second one. He's had a perfect score on every assignment/test one grade up this year, but maybe it has been closer to the right level and he's not so annoyed at it? If he isn't asking for it, isn't it just me pushing it at this point?

If we wait another year and let him coast this next year, and he skips in 4th grade to 6th grade math that will be delivered via computer and we won't have him in a class with kids two years older. He's not had any social issues one grade up though, so maybe I'm overly concerned about two years up socially.

My instinct is to skip him after school class now and then he should be set up at a great pace for the rest of the way. The 5th grade math feels like the last one it's acceptable to rush through, from my point of view. The in school math I think I may let him coast for another year, where a best friend is likely to join him one grade up and he can do the second skip in another year and again should be on the right pace the rest of the way as he hits honors classes, etc in middle and high school.

Usually you after school make up for being under challenged in school or you do SSA to prevent having to after school. You seem to be after schooling to ensure the SSA is not enough. What is your end aim?

Puffin, it sounds like Angie's end aim is to anticipate her son's needs and keep him challenged in the coming years. If he is doing 4th grade Beast Academy after school and 3rd Grade math in school, my guess is that he is still significantly under-challenged at school even with the SSA. Beast Academy goes deeper into concepts and is more challenging than public school math.

I am struggling with similar questions with DS - is it okay to let a kid coast through public school if they have no motivation to accelerate? What about all the things he's not learning: work ethic, study habits, how to deal with failure? Smart kids deserve to be challenged too, and in my experience public schools are not up to the task so you end up in this loop of challenge at home -> accelerate at school so they're not bored -> repeat.

Good Luck Angie, I don't really have any answers. I'm hoping for some more flexibility once he gets out of elementary school.

I'm mixing two questions, no doubt, but they're related so I thought it might paint a more complete picture.

On the SSA -- it can't meet his needs yet. Our district is very inflexible. You can't SSA until 2nd grade and you can only skip one year at a time and you can only test once a year on a specific date. Given that, you have to really plan ahead to try to meet the needs of your child. The SSA is the long term plan -- looking at the system as it is now I anticipate it finally lining up with his needs in 4th grade when he will take compressed 6th and 7th grade math via computer and go from there.

Given the above, the choice is do I skip him over 4th or 5th grade in school? In the end I anticipate his need will be to do one skip of those two years to end up in the same spot, so it may not matter.

I'm a little lost here because the kid that was begging for a skip last year seems basically indifferent this year. He doesn't care either way and is super happy with life, including math. I'm just doing a gut check I suppose if a school skip is really needed or if I should just wait until next year and skip him into that 6/7th grade class. Even if it's way below his level, if it's good socially and he's happy...? Eh, maybe leave it.

On AoPS he's driving it himself -- he's moving through the material and interested and AoPS will always (even at grade level) give him more than the standard school curriculum. I have no concerns with him doing after school math. I think actually the after school math may be meeting his needs well enough that he no longer cares if he's being challenged in school or not. If I take that away we may have behavior and attitude problems in school again around math, whereas now he's doing great.

On the AoPS it's almost the opposite -- he's flying ahead and I wonder if it's too fast in terms of getting the concepts. If he's doing well on the tests I guess it's fine and he understands the material.

Portia it's a good point about the spurts. I've noticed that too. It's a bit unsettling when you're in one, and I think we're just in one! By unsettling I don't mean bad I just mean it's unexpected and your plans don't mean much anymore when the kid rewrites them. I suppose he will stop and catch his breath when he needs to.

marigold, good luck to you too. Sounds very similar.

Do what works for your son now would be my advice.

My ds was 2 yrs accelerated in math and LA starting 1st (in 3rd he was in 5th) but the next year in 4th was the worst. The school was out of curriculum in 4th but they had to try to accommodate (ILP). They fell through on all the options they agreed to at the start of the year. In 4th we after schooled with AoPS pre algebra and had a tudor once or twice a week. Sometimes the tudor ( a senior at the local high school) and my son would rush through the weeks work and sneak in a game of checkers or chess. It was an hour session but it very often went on for 2 hours. It was absolutely the best thing we could have done. We also started to take him to math competitions around the area at schools who had math programs just to see how it went.

We ended up not trusting what the school was promising. We had meeting after meeting. There was a difference in opinion depending who was at the meeting. High school and middle school principals were not so thrilled we were coming there way (just a gut feeling from their comments) so we bailed and went to a private middle school that started in 5th.

This is exactly how my DS has tended to progress--and across virtually all subjects.

Wow. I think we have the same son.
Mine is also a 2nd grader taking 4th grade math at AoPS academy (so in a classroom with other kids), and is SSA to 3rd grade math in his public school. My school district is so rigid that technically speaking, he shouldn't have been allowed the SSA, and he might not be allowed a 2nd grade skip.

For my part, he isn't leaning anything at all in his public school math, and the Beast Academy 4 is pretty easy for him. I'm not planning on pushing him ahead in the Beast Academy math, though, since there doesn't seem to be a point in being so far ahead of the public school math.

Instead, these are some of the things I've done to supplement his math education:
-Download or buy books of math contest questions, and have him work through these. Elementary school math olympiad (MOEMS) has some nice books. You can generally find math kangaroo tests online (at least the canadian ones). Many AMC8 questions would be within reach, too.
-Logic puzzles: My son enjoyed the logic section of BA 4B, and there are many apps out there with the same types of puzzles.
-Music lessons
-Beast Academy online contest.

Re: the reluctance for another SSA- Mine is kind of the same way. He feels weird about being viewed as different at school. The logistics of the SSA have been stressful to him, since the math class times are not aligned. Also, for each year we SSA, that's another year he will have to travel to the middle school for math and take classes with middle schoolers, which makes him very nervous. I wish schools had better answers for kids like ours, but they really aren't equipped to deal with outliers.

If the SSA isn't enough and you are still having to after school then odds are a second skip won't help either. It is likely an issue of pace and being too linear - my kids learn in bursts too. Since kids often grow in bursts it is probably common. Is there ant chance he could do his own work during maths?