Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Kindergarten woes

Hello, I'd like to get some advice about testing. My son is 5.5 and in kindergarten. He is having a rough year so far and it's only been about a month! He doesn't want to go to school. Ever. He gets a nervous stomach every morning and really stresses about school. He is very sensitive and his teacher is not. She's very loud and brash, and he does not like her at all, unfortunately. He's scared of her and terrified of making a mistake.

This is so sad because he's had just a history of perfectionism and we've worked so hard with him to let things go more easily. Since school started this has gotten much worse. He stresses about his writing homework, worrying if he doesn't get his letters on the lines correctly (his teacher wants us to correct homework with our child, but I've started not correcting pretty much anything unless it's completely wrong). He stresses about me talking to his teacher about anything, afraid he will get in trouble. He says she yells all the time (I'm guessing she isn't actually yelling at 5 year olds?) and just last night he was stressing that his teacher said he couldn't go to recess if he didn't finish his drawing in time. I brought that up with her this morning and she said that she didn't say that. I feel that's a strangely specific thing to make up, but he does seem to be misunderstanding a lot of things that are happening at school. Or not processing them like most people might.

He does seem to be somewhat bored in school as well, and so far has only liked when they learned about different types of scientists and learned that bats use echolocation. He's already reading some (though he's somewhat reluctant. Not sure if it's hard for him or if he's afraid to try and mess up.), and they're still going over letters. He already has most addition and subtraction down pat, and will sometimes do simple multiplication, while they're still working on "circle the one that's different" or "count how many".

His teacher says he's very sweet and listens well. She said she doesn't think she's ever yelled at him. She says he seems nervous to talk to her though. So far I've spoken to his teacher and the school psychologist and they've only suggested doing things that we're already doing so I may have to contact them again.

I'm not sure if he's gifted or not. I know he's very bright and very intense and sensitive (doesn't always melt down, but things strongly affect him very easily), and his brain works in ways that amaze me. He seems to "just know" an awful lot, loves numbers and math, has interests that most people his age don't, and always wants to read books (he's started reading but much prefers me to read to him). BUT, I do feel there's something going on with him. Anxiety, perfectionism, some kind of issue that causes him to not take things the way people intend them? Is that a thing? Possibly dyslexia as well, though I'm sure it's a little young to know that. My husband has anxiety, and my mom and sister both have dyslexia so it's on my mind.

If we were to look into testing, would a neuropsych eval be the way to go? Or are those issues not covered in a test like this? It would be helpful to know if he was gifted as well, but at the moment I'm more concerned about the other issues.

That was very long, so if you made it through, thank you so much for reading!

You may wish to acquaint him with ideas such as "learning from our mistakes" and "Done is better than perfect." This old post on perfectionism may be of interest, ongoing.

I take this as a confession by the teacher that she yells in class. IMO, this is inappropriate. You may wish to check your State Laws and school policies regarding classroom management, student discipline, and other related topics. It is possible that a law and/or policy is being violated.

In a polite and engaging manner, you may want to ask your child several probing questions such as... remember when you told me that the teacher said you could not go to recess if you did not finish your drawing in time....? Was she speaking just to you...? To a group of kids...? To the class in general? Where was she... standing... sitting...? Did you look at her...? Who was she looking at...? You, specifically...? Or looking all around...? Or not at a person...? What else was she doing when she said this?

Once you understand whether the teacher was standing over him and specifically addressing him... or giving directions to the class in general while absent-mindedly muti-tasking... or trying to keep other kids focused on their own work while she worked with a particular student... you will have a better set of facts to work with.

In a safe place at home, you may want to begin a dated log or journal with notes about the classroom incidents and their impact upon your child. You may want to occasionally ask the teacher polite, open-ended questions to help you gather information from her perspective about what occurred. If warranted in the future, you may want to carefully choose a small selection of these incidents which you have documented, to discuss in requesting a classroom change so that your child has a different teacher.

Here is a roundup on advocacy.

He sounds very similar to my daughter. Emotions and the like. We started to notice trouble in Kindergarten (in 2nd grade now). She has diagnoses of ASD (high functioning and a provisional diagnosis), SPD, and ADHD. We had the school do a full evaluation on her in first grade after a lot of pushing to get them to do it. She now has an educational diagnosis of dyslexia along with anxiety and depression related to school. She also qualified for counseling and social skills classes. I believe that the anxiety can be a hallmark sign of dyslexia (along with many other issues) and since you have a family history I would request an eval from the school (in writing). You can do a full neuropsych, but they are costly and as others have said, the IQ part may not be as stable at this age, so you may want to save that as your backup if you can't get the school to comply. I would look up dyslexia laws in your state to request and eval from the school.

Thank you all for your responses.

indigo - The school has a great "growth mindset" program and lots of posters hanging up about mistakes and "I can't do it YET", but it either isn't resonating with him, or his experience in class is not consistent with what they're saying they believe. As far as the drawing/no recess thing, after speaking with him again and with his teacher on the phone, she actually did say it but she didn't think it was a big deal because he finished his work and did get to go to recess. I still think that is a strange punishment for kids since that is their only chance to get outside, run and play. A lot of kids may be able to let it go because it didn't actually happen, but not my son. He stresses about it and worries about the next time instead. Thank you for your advice, I will be keeping a closer record of what is happening.

Portia - I have been thinking of homeschooling for a few years now due to my own thoughts about education, but am very overwhelmed and nervous about taking that plunge. However, now that he is having a hard time, I might need to take a look again. He said just this morning "I don't like that I can't learn what I want to learn. I can only learn what they want to tell me." So there's that to consider too... As far as testing, more than IQ I was hoping to figure out if he could have a more specific processing problem with what is happening in a situation. He always understands what is happening in books and can tell what is happening from a picture just fine, but he reacts so strongly inside to things sometimes. He used to shake if he would watch Daniel Tiger and the mom was upset or two kids were arguing. As if he over-intensifies anger or frustration. He still considers a lot of things scary that most people wouldn't really think of as scary. I love your idea of a safe "mess up" time to set aside for us. I will be trying that right away.

extmom - I didn't realize they could separate tests. I know very little about testing, and what they can glean from the tests. Thank you for sharing your experience! I will look more into dyslexia and dyslexia laws.

It's so sad that adults are so quick to dismiss the feedback of a small child as them misunderstanding, when I find that all too often that's not the problem at all. Another explanation is that the K teacher is indeed yelling, and either lacks the self-awareness to know that she's doing it, or is self-aware and lies about it to parents.

Another potential source of anxiety for your DS could be coming from the teacher actively suppressing him to get the other students engaged, because he's already reading and they're doing letters still. This happened to my DD in K... her teacher was quite pointed about it. DD came home one day and tried to tell us she'd forgotten how to write an "M," and we were OUTRAGED.

Data is the key to unlocking this mystery. Does your school allow for parental observation?

A teacher who doesn't yell will be certain that no yelling occurred. Not acceptable. I would keep a dated log based on comments from your DS going forward regarding the yelling and address the issue of inappropriate classroom management with the principal after having a pointed conversation about the yelling with the teacher.

On the nervousness around the teacher, that could easily be a by-product of an aggressive/yelling teacher or an inappropriate educational fit. On the latter, if your DS is being required to assimilate to a level below his own, he's effectively being required to engage executive function well above age level. Maintaining a mask is tiring and, understandably, could induce some anxiety in the classroom setting.

My answer obviously doesn't touch on the core issue of academic fit, which is also likely at play.


Same for my DS in kindergarten. He was only registered for half-days to minimize his exposure (as homeschooling wasn't then an option). In a large class with multiple achievement levels, there is a very real phenomenon of silencing the most capable to encourage general participation.

Even if not, no school can prevent a parent from observing outdoor play at recess from public property.

Some of the most valuable information I collected about my DS' former teacher's habits were gleaned from watching her oversee recess while unaware that I was watching. I should add that regional privacy laws may allow you to publicly film the teacher acting out, which provides irrefutable evidence in support of your case. (Just be sure you are on the side of right if you proceed with recording.)

Also, if you can get any answers in writing, that provides a nice record of the teacher's responses. Last year, I received a written, signed note from the teacher regarding IEPs that was in violation of our identification regulations. We opted out of that particular school, but it would have been a useful document to bring to advocacy discussions had we stayed.

Good point from Portia, and there is potential for retaliation. But if a major issue is not being addressed through the usual channels, retaliation or not, there's a parental duty to act. Reasonable people will have different opinions about what constitutes a major issue but, for me, regular yelling would qualify. Children ought not be terrorized at school, or anywhere. (And again, I refer you to my previous comments about prior steps to take, because Portia is spot on.)

I'm going to chime in.

This happened with DS12 in 1st grade. He had the brash, militant teacher. They had to color in every drawing on every worksheet sent home, including the background. She never yelled at DS. He was quiet and shy. But she yelled at a lot of the other kids in class and that upset him. Your description of your son sounds very similar to what we were going through with DS.

I made an appointment early in September and spoke with her about DS' unhappiness at home, the crying, the stomachaches, etc. She coudn't understand why on Earth that would be happening, but was quick to show me how "disorganized" DS's work station was and let me know that he was not working up to her expectations. I thought maybe he was just struggling with the increased work load, talked to him about how we need to learn to work with different kinds of people, and let him know that we weren't concerned at home about his performance and we thought he was amazing, and etc.

A week later I got a packet of his work home. They give numeric grades even in 1st grade at our school. He had 100 on everything. EVERYTHING. From math to spelling.

I called the principal on that day, a Friday afternoon at 4:30, to leave a message to schedule a meeting. She picked up the phone. Emotional conversation ensued, and she offered to move DS to another class. Just like that.

Of course it took an additional 2 weeks to get it done, because the AP was best friends with DS' teacher and didn't want him moved, but we eventually, by documenting every little snippet DS shared about her, got it done. He was moved to the "nice" teacher, who, admittedly, did not challenge him, but he felt safe, and that was more important for his 6 year old self at the time.

We've never regretted moving him. We caught some flak from other parents at the school, but it was worth it. She was absolutely the wrong fit for DS., and IMHO any gifted child. He's never had a problem with another teacher and is still a strong student in Middle School.

If you haven't tried yet, it might be worth escalating to see if he can be moved to another teacher.

You mentioned testing. Actually, that was your question, and I answered in an entirely different manner. Sorry! I still have to sit down with teachers every year and go through ideas, and plans, and so forth but it's been helpful to have a baseline from which to work, a research based metric that no one can argue with. We've never done more than the basic school-provided testing, but for DS that's been all we have needed.