Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments New seats every day in 2nd grade

My 7YO is being evaluated, at the school's request, for ADHD, in the coming months (waiting on neuro availability, have appts set later this month for intake). He's in 2nd grade. I'm willing to do the testing. We did the same testing with my ODS and there was no ADHD diagnosis given and the neuro said the behaviors were because ODS is bored.

YDS's teacher already called a meeting with us regarding some issues in class. Some of the items: failing to choose a book (browsing too long, not committing), wandering around the classroom, falling out of his chair repeatedly, noise making, wiggling. YDS is very very stressed about school, and often cries at night about how he's "bad" at school. He's the definition of perfectionist and any mild correction he feels as discipline. He scored a goal at soccer in his own goal a few weeks ago and refused to play for the rest of the game because of this error. It was the end of the world for him.

I promise I'll get to the point in a moment.

Regarding the classroom behaviors, I think the kid is bored to tears. He's grade accelerated already +1 (he just turned 7 last week), and as such, is the youngest in his class. There is a trend to redshirt in our district and as such, many of his classmates turned 8 over the summer. YDS is 17 mos younger than the oldest in his class (from teacher) and the youngest by 3 months. I hate redshirting because my child is only really 3 weeks young for grade, but appears to be significantly less mature than his classmates ... because he is, and should be. Another topic for another day.

My specific question is around seating. The teacher believes in allowing the children to choose where to sit each day when they come in in the morning, which is right before reading time. Reading time is when he is wandering, not finding a book, being disruptive, falling out of his seat. YDS has told us specifically that he does not like not having an assigned seat, and finds it stressful to have to find a new place every day. He tries to get the same seat, but sometimes another child is in that seat and he can't get it. He got "in trouble" by the teacher for removing another child's name plate from his desired seat during book choosing time.

I've told his teacher that the seat movement is very stressful for our child. She said she will assign seats later in the year, but at this time wants to give the children the opportunity to make good choices about people they sit by, make new friends, and learn the consequences of sitting by someone who is distracting on their own. As a parent, I know my child isn't mature enough for this, and I'm not sure it's developmentally appropriate at age 8-8.5 either.

I'm to the point that I want to tell her that he needs an assigned seat. He's starting off every day at school "in trouble" (mild course corrections per the teacher). Not his words, but he feels unsettled and stressed by not having a place to go. He worries about choosing a "bad" table, or seat. He feels left out if he doesn't get a "good" spot.

It's reasonable to request that she give him an assigned seat, isn't it? I'd rather she gave every child an assigned seat, because then he wouldn't be singled out, but I'm willing to accept that he has a safe place. Without any diagnosis, we don't qualify for an IEP so I can't force this issue except to ask again. I've already asked once, and she didn't change anything.

Thoughts? How would you address this?

I think that the key is your particular child is very stressed by having to choose a seat, whether that is "reasonable" or not. If you don't think that you can counsel your DS to help him become comfortable with this process, then your only option is to ask the teacher to assign him a seat. I would not criticize her practice though since other kids don't have issues with it. You need to focus on how upsetting this process is for your DS and perhaps enlist the school counselor's help.

I'm familiar with Montessori classrooms having children self-assign seating and choose their own workspace as young as preschool.

Many children participate in extracurricular activities... team sports, martial arts, scouts, etc... and the kids who know each other outside of school are likely to gravitate toward each other in school. If your child is not making friends with classmates outside of school, this may be a good time to start.

While some kids grow more mature just through the passage of time and the experiences which kids typically encounter in a year, other kids need coaching or direct teaching to pick up on social cues and develop responses which are considered "mature."

Is it possible that your child has social anxiety? I ask because when choosing seats he seems to focus on the chair location and not be responsive to other children and his relationship (or potential relationship) with them. This is my understanding of you stating that he tends to choose the same seat every day and that he attempted to unseat another child, in order to have his desired seat. Does he exhibit inflexible thinking about other things as well?

Possibly he could be coached by you at home to see this a wonderful opportunity to sit near different kids and see things in the classroom from a different perspective. You might compare this to sitting in a different spot at home... while playing a game, reading, watching TV, playing legos, having a conversation, etc... sometimes sitting on the couch or sofa, sometimes in a rocker or recliner, sometimes on the floor.

Many kids can be coached to enjoy the freedom of making choices, trying new things, seeing what they like... and understanding that they may not always get their first choice, so they need to have a "Plan B". Some examples:
- take the next chair to the right
- take the next chair closest to the teacher
- take the chair closest to child x
- take the chair farthest from child x

I would ask him point blank what his definition of a "bad table" or a "good spot" is. I would ask him to consider whether he is becoming the definition of a "bad spot" due to his behavior choices... and what choices he could make differently.

How does he do with parties and other kids’ activities? Or lunchtime? I’m thinking about the point where all the kids pile in around a table to eat. Does he need someone to tell him where to sit or does he figure that out on his own?

Maybe try practice picking a seat in settings outside of school? I am not sure. Just throwing out ideas.

It's at this point in the conversation where I'd be pressing my palms against my eyes, lest I roll them so hard that they pop out of their sockets. What a load of wool-headed nonsense! I'd put my money on the teacher having a great number of issues with third-graders jockeying for seats, your DS's being least among them.

But in your place, I think I might try using this as an opportunity to work with your DS on the issue of his perfectionism, helping him understand that there's no "right" answer, any seat will do, really, and the whole quest for the "best" seats is kinda silly. But if there is a particular place he prefers, or a particular student he'd prefer to sit by, then he might be able to strategize how to get what he wants ahead of the other kids.

Some good thoughts above about why this is an important problem to work on with him, and how.

At the same time, with an anxiety monster of my own, what is really jumping at me is the high amount of stress this is causing him, at the very beginning of every day. Which, extrapolating from my own DS, I might suspect is bleeding into anxiety about going to school at all in the morning, as well as putting him in a state where he is much less able to focus and function for the rest of the day?

If this problem is not just one moment in the day that goes badly, but something that is having big impact on his whole school day (and views of school), then I would go with your instinct that says this stress needs to be removed, completely. For now. Get him an assigned chair, show him you're listening and want to help him cope better. Once the stress is removed and his anxiety can come down, then work him him gradually to understand the nature of the block, and build up his capacity to cope with it. Reintroduce the concept slowly, with scaffolds, once he has been taught some of the skills he needs to manage the chair situation.

How many kids are in his class? This seems like a recipe for disaster for a elementary school classroom. Tell the teacher about your son's anxiety. If she is any good, she wil respond to that.

The teacher may have chosen this classroom management strategy or it may have been dictated.

I'm familiar with schools experimenting with various classroom seating (traditional chairs, cubes, balls, stools, etc) and configurations (individual desks, trapezoid tables, etc).

I'm also familiar with schools collecting social-emotional information on students, provided by other students. For example: Prior to assigning seats, the teacher may have each student complete a survey asking such questions as:
- Up to three students I would like to sit near
- Up to three students I would NOT like to sit near

This information can be used to simply create the seating chart but can also be used to identify kids who may be lonely or left out at the moment, and those who may be leaders, bullies, or in cliques at the moment.

Survey responses can also be stored for future uses in research and statistics. For example:
- Kids who were "popular" in 2nd grade were more likely to _ fill - in - the - blank _ 10, 15, 20 years later.
- Kids who were "loners" in 2nd grade were more likely to _ fill - in - the - blank _ 10, 15, 20 years later.

What a great opportunity to work on the perfectionism.

I actually like the teacher's approach of not having a rigidly structured seating arrangement. It's teaching the children to be flexible and adaptable, and also providing them with more autonomy in selecting preferred seatmates.

In your shoes, I would practice making small choices within a reasonable amount of time at home. When you're out in public with more distractions and environmental stressors, I'd give DS control over decision-making. For instance, you go out for a coffee/hot chocolate at a cafe: where do you sit? what do you order? You browse at a bookstore: which aisles do you visit first? You attend a performance with no assigned seating or ride the metro/bus: where do you sit?

The key issue is to get around his paralysis by analysis and train him in quick, strategic decision making. Each interaction/decision is time-bound and of little importance, so the cost of "failure" is low. I think with some concerted practice, your DS is going to become much more comfortable with these decisions, and quite quickly.

Except that once one student takes a seat, someone not desired takes a seat next to them, conflict (remember, the teacher is vocally advocating that the children learn the consequences of sitting next to someone distracting, as if they have 100% control over that somehow - utter nonsense). Someone else wanted that seat, conflict. Two or more kids want to sit near each other but can't find enough seats next to each other, conflict.

The teacher is probably playing referee for the first few minutes of class every day.