Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Testing privately

I'm sorry this is a long post, I'm freaking out a little.

I've been at a loss with what to do with DD, going into 5th grade this year, so at the last minute I took her in for the school district testing for the gifted program. The test just came back, and she scored in the 98th on the verbal and 39 on the nonverbal and didnt qualify. I'm not sure what to make of this. I know I'm not a crazy person who thinks their kid is smarter than she is! I was in a gifted program in elementary school (and my husband has a much higher IQ than I do) and there is no question DD has at the very least a much faster processing speed and a better memory than I do. I wouldn't care about the testing except that the whole reason we did it is because she just finished a rough year in school, and I've been trying to figure out how to help her, and I think she's being underestimated and needs to be challenged. I'm wondering if these scores could explain why she's struggling in school and what kind of testing would be helpful to pursue privately. She has always scored in the 98-99 percentile in all of the standardized testing in school for math, reading, spelling, etc. but this year in spite of her high test scores she constantly had missing work, skipped problems on assignments, etc.

At first I thought the score might be wrong because after the test DD kept talking about how the best part was the patterns, that she had fun figuring them all out, and she was really sure she answered all of them exactly right. I'm not even sure if they're scored as "right" or "wrong," and I'm just guessing that is the section she's referring to. But then I read the description on the Cogat site and it said that the test doesn't measure IQ, it measures academic skills. So now I'm wondering if maybe the score is accurate and she didn't follow the instructions.

The last consideration for placement is a writing assessment. Her score wasn't qualifying, but this is the one score that doesn't surprise me at all. After the test she told me the grade ahead her was assigned time travel, and she had this awesome, unique idea with really hilarious supporting points that she outlined for me in the car. Her own grade was assigned a topic on pets, and she told me she finished it really fast because she just read a bunch of books on the kind of dog she wanted a couple of weeks before, so she spent the rest of the time working on what she would write if she had been assigned the other topic. I've seen what she writes when she wants to finish quickly compared to her writing when she cares about something and I wish she could have taken the other topic! But I understand what they are measuring is partly the discipline to write well regardless of the topic.

I'm ready to pay out of pocket for private testing, but I can't afford to pay for an assessment that doesn't give us good information I can use to figure out what to do next. I want to go in knowing what to ask for, or at least what to expect if this isn't reasonable.

DD also has ADHD, as do I. DH was diagnosed with ADHD because I pushed him into testing, but after reading recently about the misdiagnosis of high IQ, I'm not so sure. Sometimes I also second guess this diagnosis with DD, but then I remember something that happened in kindergarten. DD didn't go to preschool because of our family situation at the time. I worked with her at home and we did "fun preschool." I tried to teach her to read using the method that was really successful with DS. I just couldn't get her to sit still and focus on the material at all. It felt like she was "drawing" the letters, not learning them. I still went through the motions for a while, but I basically gave up, thinking she would learn better in school. In kindergarten there were reminders in the newsletters to practice sight words because the kids were supposed to pass them off by Thanksgiving. I was so frustrated because whenever I tried the flash cards with her she would just guess and barely even look at the card. When I went into PTC, I asked the teacher for suggestions, and she was surprised- she told me DD passed them all off during the first screening at the beginning of the school year. And she was reading in school, even though I hadn't ever seen her read independently before. I have always believed that she knew how to read and just wasn't interested and she struggled to focus. In the school setting, a little older and with an amazingly structured kindergarten teacher, DD was a fantastic reader.

My point is that I have no idea what kind of impact ADHD has on school and testing. I thought we were managing it pretty well, but I second guess this a lot. Especially when she tells me stuff like, "I have two desks now! The teacher gave me the extra desk so I can have one for my work and one for all of my books and stuff." I checked in with the teacher often and everything has always been reported as okay- DD is disorganized but doing great.

But she is not really "doing great." Maybe some of it is hormones, but she was getting in the car frustrated with school way too often.

Tell me what to do!

Where did you get your referral for the testing? I researched specialists but there weren't any in my state. I can't remember where I found the database, and I was thinking of looking in the state where my sister lives. I think it was a twice exceptional website but I checked the ones I remember and I don't see any referral sources.

Something just occurred to me - would DD not wearing her glasses have any impact on a non-verbal score, or am I reaching? I've been trying to take a step back and be objective, and consider that maybe my perception of DD is inaccurate, but even when I try to do that 5 examples pop into my head that demonstrate DD's non-verbal strengths. Maybe I don't understand what the non-verbal score is measuring and that's why it's not sitting right with me?

Currently pursing comprehensive private testing, but I'm not sure we'll make it before school starts, and it's just nagging at me.

You mentioned that you weren't sure the effect ADHD may have on testing. My son had IQ testing before ADHD diagnosis and after ADHD treatment.

Without ADHD treatment his FSIQ was 108. With treatment it was 132.
Without ADHD treatment his GAI was 117. With treatment it was 141.

ADHD treatment took my son's testing from high average range to extremely gifted range.

I'd also like to share that my son's elementary school teacher did not note ADHD symptoms. The teacher filled out a report of classroom behavior as part of neuropsychology evaluation. I filled out the same survey. The teacher described his behavior as "typical" and only marked 1 symptoms of ADHD-inattentive behavior. I scored his behavior with many more ADHD traits. I was right, but it was 2 more years until that mess was sorted out. My point is that classroom teachers are NOT good at identifying ADHD or high intelligence - and particularly the combination.

In your daughter's case, you describe impulsive behavior in the writing section affecting her score. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that impulsive behavior could have affected other sections of the test as well.

If something seems wrong, definitely investigate. You know your daughter better than the classroom teacher. Don't let their professional experience override your gut. If you feel she's not thriving, well, she's probably not.

Edited to add:
I wasn't going to share this because it feels braggy. Changed my mind and came back to add it because I WISH someone had told me this stuff 3 years ago. I regret putting too much trust in the elementary school.

When my son was first tested and I was dealing with the school telling me he was "normal" and "typical", he was in 1st grade with some differentiation. I requested acceleration and they were going to give him 1 grade acceleration in 1 subject (even though he had already passed the end of year test for that subject/grade level.)

I enrolled him our district's virtual charter school that does continuous progress subject acceleration. He started flying. In math, where he was offered the 1 grade level subject acceleration, he started off with a 2 grade skip (into 4th), then after a couple month he skipped into 5th grade. He finished 5th grade in 2 months. The next school year he was placed in 6th grade math. He refused to participate after a couple months so his learning guide said to let him do whatever he was willing to do. He did algebra 1. He's at the end of his 4th grade year and doing algebra 2. I would never dreamed he would progress so quickly. As for other subjects, his progression has been similar. He got a 3-grade skip with the virtual school so he could take high school classes for credit.

It hasn't been easy or wonderful. The ADHD symptoms have been very difficult to work around and we're at a point where they cannot be worked around any further. I'm just sharing to show how WRONG elementary teachers can be about gifted plus ADHD. Like I said, I didn't have any idea that my son had ADHD or how strongly it was affecting him and I wish I knew this was a possibility years ago. Would have saved a lot of heartache.

DD doesn't present as "typical" ADHD, either, and neither did I, which is why I had a late diagnosis and recognized some of the same behaviors. Other than the disorganization, and the occasional disruptive comment in class, there has never been any indication at school that DD had ADHD, and I'm pretty sure they thought I was nuts when we started treatment.

There has never been any question that DD is bright, every PTC is all praise for her high scores, but she's never been pushed to see where she can go. This year they changed her math level placement like 4 times because she kept testing above grade level, but then her actual math grade was all over the place with missing assignments, etc. Finally, during last quarter, the teacher let her move ahead at her own pace and she whipped through everything with A's for the rest of the year. I know she doesn't perform anywhere near her level of capability, but no one cares because she generally has A's and her test scores are high.

She's never been perceived as having a behavior problem, and because she is socially adept she she often sought out to partner with kids who struggle. But privately, she has a serious attitude problem that is quickly slipping out of control, and it is directed towards school. She's much more sarcastic, her respect for authority has declined, and she sees her teachers as not really knowing anything. Aside from her lack of organization, which is more obvious the more independent the kids are expected to be, and the occasional impulsive comment in class, I doubt anyone outside of our family would even be concerned. The change in her attitude and frustration level to those who know her is alarming. I tried to attribute this to hormones and moodiness, because she did hit puberty early, but especially since she has been out of school for the summer and is doing much better, I don't think that's a reasonable explanation.

I really thought we'd be able to get her help without the full blown private evaluation, but it's clear that's not realistic, so I'm heading in that direction. Hopefully the school will work with us as the new year starts and we are sorting everything out.