Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 186 guests, and 18 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Gingtto, SusanRoth
    11,429 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 2 of 2 1 2
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 9
    D
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    D
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 9
    Sorry for any grammar mistakes in any of my posts, I currently type on a phone. tired

    Originally Posted by indigo
    In your school, is there a difference between "gifted" and "kids who test above grade level"? In some schools there would not be a difference.
    No, there is no difference in my school, but generally speaking, test results to be considered for advanced placement/Excel (in my school) is much more lower.

    Originally Posted by indigo
    This sounds like 5 sections of 30 students each: 2 sections advanced, 3 sections at grade-level. Am I understanding this correctly?
    Correct, about 5 Language Art classes in total for a grade, 3 for grade level, and 2 for advanced students.

    Originally Posted by indigo
    It would be unusual for the number of students who qualified for the advanced class to exactly match the number of seats available. Are there other kids who qualified for the advanced class and did not get in? Does the school cluster group these advanced students together within a section of the grade-level class and have them work at their zone of proximal development?
    No the school does not at all challenge any kids in the grade level classes because they are considered grade-level to the school, . What really strikes me as odd is 40% of students in my grade are taking this advanced Language Arts, and many are barely above grade level/low 70's - low 80's percentiles on the nwea for Reading. I know the cutoff score will usually decrease for a smaller school, but when it's almost half of the grade?

    Another concerning aspect is that i feel that i have a disadvantage for recommendation of a teacher. I feel like the teachers at my school recommend a lot more involved students in school/community activity (like sports) where as i stand out a bit (hold a different religion and positions than the majority of the community).



    Last edited by DigitalPixels; 06/19/17 12:25 AM.
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    Another concerning aspect is that i feel that i have a disadvantage for recommendation of a teacher. I feel like the teachers at my school recommend a lot more involved students in school/community activity (like sports) where as i stand out a bit (hold a different religion and positions than the majority of the community).
    A person's feelings are not necessarily accurate or in proportion to any given situation, for a variety of reasons. It is unwise to guess at the motivation or thinking of another; Such conjecture may amount to projecting one's own feelings onto others and may result in discrediting the accuser. When faced with potential disadvantage/bullying/discrimination, one might focus on:
    - What someone said (and the context)
    - What someone did (and the context)
    Based on your several posts, there is not strong indication that "disadvantage" exists or is the best path to pursue in this situation. Alleging discrimination quickly escalates your situation beyond advocacy to a legal matter.

    I would suggest focusing on and investing energy into areas in which you can work to increase the likelihood of inclusion in the current year's advanced classes and/or future year's advanced classes.

    1) To demonstrate your interest in advanced Language Arts THIS YEAR:
    - learn the waitlist and/or add/drop policy and timeframe.

    2) To demonstrate your interest in advanced Language Arts for FUTURE YEARS:
    - work on bringing up your grades. Show that you not only have ability or potential, but also the drive to achieve.
    - tell your teacher(s), proactively, that you are interested in obtaining a recommendation/referral for the advanced class(es), and ask their advice.
    - take care with your everyday grammar, spelling, diction.
    - possibly use the web to find and enter a writing contest or competition. This may provide you with an academic challenge, help you grow your skills independently (whether or not you are in the advanced class), and furnish a piece of writing and/or an outside award that you might use to support your request for a recommendation/referral.
    - be aware of all deadlines and due dates.

    3) To change the school's policy/practice for selection of students into advanced Language Arts, it is strongly suggested that you work with a parent, or other in-person adult who can help you research and advocate. One possible approach is to type up a letter to send to each school board member and/or to read/present at a school board meeting:
    - include your name, school, grade, date, and bibliography of outside expert resources and articles which you mention and/or attach.
    - make a copy of your letter/presentation to hand out to each school board member and a few extra copies (including, possibly, an advance copy for local media so they are aware of what you will present, in the event that media may wish to cover the story).
    - learn the rules for presenting at a school board meeting.
    - at a school board meeting, read your letter/presentation. This may include:
    -- explain to the school board the numbers which indicate that some students who qualify for and are interested in advanced Language Arts are not placed in this class, due to the number of qualified students exceeding the number of seats made available in two sections.
    -- explain the academic difficulty which arises for students who qualify for an advanced course and are not placed in this class: underachievement. Include reference to specific quotes from one or more expert articles on underachievement which you select.
    -- suggest that the school implement policies for change, to more closely meet student needs. These policy changes might include:
    --- serving students with the greatest need for advanced coursework (as indicated by qualifying score) by enrolling students based on highest to lowest qualifying score.
    --- cluster grouping students who qualified but did not get enrolled into the advanced course.
    --- formalizing the policy/practice for enrollment in advanced courses, and publishing it (online, in student/parent handbook, course catalog, etc... whatever is your local norm) so that all students/families may have opportunity for timely access to the information on qualifying for and enrolling in advanced coursework.

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    Is English your second language? There are a few oddities in your typing i was putting down to phone typing or auto correct until you mentioned religion. If you do have accented English, an obvious religion and your grades dropped it is understandable you wouldn't be recommemded. I would approach the teacher, point out your testing results and ask what you would need to do to prove readiness. Also check whether you can switch classes during tthe year.

    Eta. Accent has no bearing on ability or performance (I have had plenty of profwssira for whom English was their second/thrird/eighth language) but some people don't look past the surface.

    Last edited by puffin; 06/19/17 01:44 PM.
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    puffin, are you in the US?

    The United States has strictly enforced Civil Rights laws which prevent discrimination. Here is a link from the US Department of Education (USDoE), Office of Civil Rights (OCR): OCR Complaint Forms - Electronic and PDF versions, which states, in part, "Covered entities include all public and private programs that receive Federal funds from the U.S. Department of Education. These include all public schools and most public and private colleges, as well as some other entities, such as vocational rehabilitation agencies and libraries."

    Because of the potential for federal lawsuit and loss of funding, it may be less likely that a student was not recommended/referred for an advanced class due to "accented English" or "obvious religion"... than for the student's grades dropping and other performance/achievement factors.

    That said, I do agree with puffin's advice: "I would approach the teacher, point out your testing results and ask what you would need to do to prove readiness. Also check whether you can switch classes during the year."

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    I am not in the US but we have laws too. That does not stop a teacher having inbuilt bias which they may not even be aware of. It also does not stop teachers making mistakes or making decisions based on preconceived ideas (you can't have an LD and be gifted, if you get skipped you might get pregnant because that is what happened too the last person, it is unfair to make a ESL student do a hard class or whatever).

    Anyway it may be irrelevant - I have never met the OP and she did state she was having trouble typing on her phone. I make a lot more errors on my phone too. And it is possible they just put students in order by grade and drew a line under number 60. The OP may have been 61.

    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,248
    Likes: 2
    puffin, while I agree this may be possible... it may not be probable. Weighing factual descriptions given by the student against the newly reported 'feeling' of 'disadvantage', I would not place emphasis on the emotion as compared with other details of posts:

    - Small school, redshirted student.

    - 7th grade (approx age 13?)- A/B student - NWEA scores unknown - not recommended/referred for advanced 8th grade Language Arts.

    - 8th grade (approx age 14?) - drop in grades - student is bored - NWEA scores qualify for advanced 9th grade Language Arts - not recommended/referred for advanced 9th grade Language Arts. The combination of high test scores and low grades may indicate underachievement.

    - 9th grade (approx age 15?) - Student desires placement in advanced 9th grade Language Arts, and reports that school says:
    1) class is filled.
    2) drop in grades justifies lack of recommendation/referral.
    3) credit would not be granted as trimester has begun; term is in session.
    -- Student appears to be addressing this situation after-the-fact as registration for class in not currently open.
    -- The student did not respond as to how far into the term his/her school was, whether there is a waitlist or add-drop policy, whether there is a parent or other in-person adult to assist with research/advocacy, number of other students who qualified for and were interested in advanced 9th grade Language Arts but were not placed in that class.
    -- While student states english is a favorite class, posts indicate poor use of grammar/diction beyond that which I typically observe as being attributable to typing on a phone.
    -- Student describes school responses as 'complete bull' and 'excuses', and more recently reports 'feeling' at a disadvantage for a recommendation, based on not being active in sports/school/community and holding 'a different religion and positions than the majority of the community'.

    In my observation and experience, it takes effort to earn good grades, to be active in community, to advocate. There are many articles written on essential attributes beyond high test scores which contribute to success. Age may be playing a role in student discontent.

    I would emphasize areas for the student to apply effort, rather than creating conjecture of bias.

    The student may benefit from understanding the overall context into which his/her complaint fits: There are many under-served students, and parents advocate for years in attempt to get needs met. Positive advocacy may yield the desired results.

    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 9
    D
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    D
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 9
    Originally Posted by indigo
    puffin, while I agree this may be possible... it may not be probable. Weighing factual descriptions given by the student against the newly reported 'feeling' of 'disadvantage', I would not place emphasis on the emotion as compared with other details of posts:

    - Small school, redshirted student.

    - 7th grade (approx age 13?)- A/B student - NWEA scores unknown - not recommended/referred for advanced 8th grade Language Arts.

    - 8th grade (approx age 14?) - drop in grades - student is bored - NWEA scores qualify for advanced 9th grade Language Arts - not recommended/referred for advanced 9th grade Language Arts. The combination of high test scores and low grades may indicate underachievement.

    - 9th grade (approx age 15?) - Student desires placement in advanced 9th grade Language Arts, and reports that school says:
    1) class is filled.
    2) drop in grades justifies lack of recommendation/referral.
    3) credit would not be granted as trimester has begun; term is in session.
    -- Student appears to be addressing this situation after-the-fact as registration for class in not currently open.
    -- The student did not respond as to how far into the term his/her school was, whether there is a waitlist or add-drop policy, whether there is a parent or other in-person adult to assist with research/advocacy, number of other students who qualified for and were interested in advanced 9th grade Language Arts but were not placed in that class.
    -- While student states english is a favorite class, posts indicate poor use of grammar/diction beyond that which I typically observe as being attributable to typing on a phone.
    -- Student describes school responses as 'complete bull' and 'excuses', and more recently reports 'feeling' at a disadvantage for a recommendation, based on not being active in sports/school/community and holding 'a different religion and positions than the majority of the community'.

    In my observation and experience, it takes effort to earn good grades, to be active in community, to advocate. There are many articles written on essential attributes beyond high test scores which contribute to success. Age may be playing a role in student discontent.

    I would emphasize areas for the student to apply effort, rather than creating conjecture of bias.

    The student may benefit from understanding the overall context into which his/her complaint fits: There are many under-served students, and parents advocate for years in attempt to get needs met. Positive advocacy may yield the desired results.
    I would just like to thank you so much for your guidance and will be following your advice, and i do feel my previous comment about some of the administration being bias was somewhat imaginary due to my frustrations.

    I will keep this thread updated if any developments occur!




    Last edited by DigitalPixels; 07/04/17 11:23 PM.
    Page 2 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 05/03/24 07:21 PM
    Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years
    by brilliantcp - 05/02/24 05:17 PM
    NAGC Tip Sheets
    by indigo - 04/29/24 08:36 AM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by Wren - 04/29/24 03:43 AM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5