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    Joined: May 2017
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    Hi guys! Earlier i posted a forum about my nwea scores and if they where considered gifted (above the 95th percentile) back in identification and testing * http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ade_High_nwea_test_score.html#Post238397 * (and yes my Science and Reading scores where both above the 95th percentile, as well as scored advanced in both Language Arts and Science on the M-Step)

    Now my main concern is that my public school i go to wont accelerate me for English (In my school theres 2 classes for English considered "Excel" where kids who are above grade level do the next years work.) I've talked to multiple teachers and school counselors and they said i qualified for the program but it's filled.

    To my perspective this is complete bull, another excuse made was that since the excel class is giving high school credit, i wouldnt be able to get the credit since it already started.

    Can a public school do this? I go to a small school in Michigan, and one of my favorite subjects is english, im currently going to be a freshmen this year and have never been enrolled in any acceleration program.



    Last edited by DigitalPixels; 06/16/17 10:58 AM.
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    Looking at the Michigan legislation for gifted education, some might say that because gifted programs are not mandated, a school may have no obligation to serve a particular student who might need or benefit from advanced curriculum in English. That's one take on it. However the school has a program, so the question to focus on may be one of "access".

    You may wish to check your school policies online, to learn how they describe their gifted program, especially this class. For example, is there a prerequisite?
    ...an enrollment deadline?
    ...a notification of what the qualification criteria would be (NWEA scores)?
    ...a policy of advising all who qualified (via NWEA scores) about the opportunity to enroll in this course?
    ...is there a lottery if number of interested/qualified pupils exceeds the number of seats the school chooses to make available?
    ...is entry granted on a first-come, first-served basis?
    ...is entry granted in score order, with highest scores first?
    ...does a letter of recommendation help to gain entry?
    If the information is not transparent and/or is not shared with all students/families in a matter which provides equal opportunity to access the course, then this may be a talking point for you. However, this may be saved as a last resort, and you'll want to be sure to have collected your facts prior to raising this as a possibility.

    Back to researching your school's website: Does your school have an add/drop or schedule change policy? For example, it may be the first week or even first month of the term. How far are you into the term?

    Often a student may gain full credit by making up the work which they missed. Often a student may attend the teacher's office hours for assistance or tutoring to catch up on missed work.

    Would any of the teachers and/or school counselors who assured you that you have qualified this course be willing to write a letter of recommendation for you?
    Would any of these teachers and/or school counselors advocate for you to be admitted to the class?
    Is there a parent or other in-person adult who might be able to help you research and advocate?

    As for calling it bull, you may be right. Many organizations do what is streamlined and/or easiest... they may take the path of least resistance. It may be safe enough to call it bull here, but please do not take that approach with the school. There is a saying, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." This means a pleasant approach is generally more effective. Here's a bunch of advocacy tips. The most important at the moment may be the meeting tips, including:
    - researching and fact-finding (you've already begun this)
    - keeping emotions in check
    - taking notes on who you spoke with, when you spoke with them, what they said.

    Best wishes with this. I do hope you get into the course you are interested in and qualified for.

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    Originally Posted by indigo
    Looking at the Michigan legislation for gifted education, some might say that because gifted programs are not mandated, a school may have no obligation to serve a particular student who might need or benefit from advanced curriculum in English. That's one take on it. However the school has a program, so the question to focus on may be one of "access".

    You may wish to check your school policies online, to learn how they describe their gifted program, especially this class. For example, is there a prerequisite?
    ...an enrollment deadline?
    ...a notification of what the qualification criteria would be (NWEA scores)?
    ...a policy of advising all who qualified (via NWEA scores) about the opportunity to enroll in this course?
    ...is there a lottery if number of interested/qualified pupils exceeds the number of seats the school chooses to make available?
    ...is entry granted on a first-come, first-served basis?
    ...is entry granted in score order, with highest scores first?
    ...does a letter of recommendation help to gain entry?
    If the information is not transparent and/or is not shared with all students/families in a matter which provides equal opportunity to access the course, then this may be a talking point for you. However, this may be saved as a last resort, and you'll want to be sure to have collected your facts prior to raising this as a possibility.

    Back to researching your school's website: Does your school have an add/drop or schedule change policy? For example, it may be the first week or even first month of the term. How far are you into the term?

    Often a student may gain full credit by making up the work which they missed. Often a student may attend the teacher's office hours for assistance or tutoring to catch up on missed work.

    Would any of the teachers and/or school counselors who assured you that you have qualified this course be willing to write a letter of recommendation for you?
    Would any of these teachers and/or school counselors advocate for you to be admitted to the class?
    Is there a parent or other in-person adult who might be able to help you research and advocate?

    As for calling it bull, you may be right. Many organizations do what is streamlined and/or easiest... they may take the path of least resistance. It may be safe enough to call it bull here, but please do not take that approach with the school. There is a saying, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." This means a pleasant approach is generally more effective. Here's a bunch of advocacy tips. The most important at the moment may be the meeting tips, including:
    - researching and fact-finding (you've already begun this)
    - keeping emotions in check
    - taking notes on who you spoke with, when you spoke with them, what they said.

    Best wishes with this. I do hope you get into the course you are interested in and qualified for.
    Thank you for taking your time and replying to my forum.

    I would like to emphasize this class is not a class for gifted but a class for kids who test above grade level. There are 150 kids in my grade and 60 kids enrolled into the Excel Language Arts in my grade, which is 40 % in my grade (this is the same for about every grade in my school)

    Also there is no hint of the Excel program offered at my school on there website.




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    Originally Posted by indigo
    Looking at the Michigan legislation for gifted education, some might say that because gifted programs are not mandated, a school may have no obligation to serve a particular student who might need or benefit from advanced curriculum in English. That's one take on it. However the school has a program, so the question to focus on may be one of "access".

    You may wish to check your school policies online, to learn how they describe their gifted program, especially this class. For example, is there a prerequisite?
    ...an enrollment deadline?
    ...a notification of what the qualification criteria would be (NWEA scores)?
    ...a policy of advising all who qualified (via NWEA scores) about the opportunity to enroll in this course?
    ...is there a lottery if number of interested/qualified pupils exceeds the number of seats the school chooses to make available?
    ...is entry granted on a first-come, first-served basis?
    ...is entry granted in score order, with highest scores first?
    ...does a letter of recommendation help to gain entry?
    If the information is not transparent and/or is not shared with all students/families in a matter which provides equal opportunity to access the course, then this may be a talking point for you. However, this may be saved as a last resort, and you'll want to be sure to have collected your facts prior to raising this as a possibility.

    Back to researching your school's website: Does your school have an add/drop or schedule change policy? For example, it may be the first week or even first month of the term. How far are you into the term?

    Often a student may gain full credit by making up the work which they missed. Often a student may attend the teacher's office hours for assistance or tutoring to catch up on missed work.

    Would any of the teachers and/or school counselors who assured you that you have qualified this course be willing to write a letter of recommendation for you?
    Would any of these teachers and/or school counselors advocate for you to be admitted to the class?
    Is there a parent or other in-person adult who might be able to help you research and advocate?

    As for calling it bull, you may be right. Many organizations do what is streamlined and/or easiest... they may take the path of least resistance. It may be safe enough to call it bull here, but please do not take that approach with the school. There is a saying, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." This means a pleasant approach is generally more effective. Here's a bunch of advocacy tips. The most important at the moment may be the meeting tips, including:
    - researching and fact-finding (you've already begun this)
    - keeping emotions in check
    - taking notes on who you spoke with, when you spoke with them, what they said.

    Best wishes with this. I do hope you get into the course you are interested in and qualified for.
    Thanks for taking your time and replying to my forum!

    I would like to emphasize that this class is not a gifted class but for kids who test above grade level. There are 150 kids in my grade and 60 in my grade are enrolled into the Language Art excel class, percentage wise 40% of kids in my grade are enrolled into the Excel Language Arts (this is about the same statistic in every grade at my school).

    Also there is no hint of the excel programs at my school on there website.

    Last edited by DigitalPixels; 06/18/17 07:26 PM.
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    It seems schools do mostly whatever they like.

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    I hear that it is done all the time for expediency, whether it complies with official education laws/policies or not. Sometimes it helps when the parents make a fuss. It also makes a difference why you were excluded. Did you miss a deadline for requesting particular classes? Were your scores lower in previous administrations or have you received relatively lower grades in the past? As for high school credit, in our area it is predicated on a sufficiently high score on the year-end high school exam.

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    Originally Posted by Quantum2003
    I hear that it is done all the time for expediency, whether it complies with official education laws/policies or not. Sometimes it helps when the parents make a fuss. It also makes a difference why you were excluded. Did you miss a deadline for requesting particular classes? Were your scores lower in previous administrations or have you received relatively lower grades in the past? As for high school credit, in our area it is predicated on a sufficiently high score on the year-end high school exam.
    Thanks for replying!

    In my middle school there are no sign-ups besides the traditional music options (Choir,Band,and Orchestra). Usually what happens is at the end of 7th grade the Language Art teacher will meet students individually in class, who feel would benefit from the excel Language art class and ask them if they would like to participate in the excel class in 8th grade.

    I am usually an A-B student, but in 8th grade i grew intensively tired/bored of middle school and my grades dropped at the end of the last trimester. I know i sabotaged my self as counselors use my grade dropping as another excuse to not let me into the excel Language Arts. (Another minor reason i became bored was because i am a year older than all my peers because i started school late)

    But i still and have always scored very high on my state testing proving i can handle the excel class. (My nwea science and reading scores are the highest in the school)


    Last edited by DigitalPixels; 06/18/17 04:01 PM.
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    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    I am usually an A-B student, but in 8th grade i grew intensively tired/bored of middle school and my grades dropped at the end of the last trimester. I know i sabotaged my self as counselors use my grade dropping as another excuse to not let me into the excel Language Arts. (Another minor reason i became bored was because i am a year older than all my peers because i started school late)
    But i still and have always scored very high on my state testing...(My nwea science and reading scores are the highest in the school)
    Kudos to you for owning your mistake. Meanwhile you are not alone in having a discrepancy between high potential and low achievement; This is often called underachievement. One common antidote to underachievement is appropriately challenging curriculum. One might expect teachers and school counselors to be familiar with this and therefore be willing to help advocate for your placement in the class which you qualified for.

    Beginning school a year late is often called red-shirting.

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    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    Thanks for taking your time and replying to my forum!
    You are very polite to thank me, and you are very welcome. smile I have a soft spot for people who are new to advocacy, especially for students.

    Because you mentioned that you are interested in Language Arts, you will want to have a large and accurate vocabulary. For that reason, I will share that I replied to your thread, or to your post (not to your forum). The forums are the different groups of topics... for example, you posted your thread in the Parenting and Advocacy forum.

    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    I would like to emphasize that this class is not a gifted class but for kids who test above grade level.
    In your school, is there a difference between "gifted" and "kids who test above grade level"? In some schools there would not be a difference.

    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    there is no hint of the excel programs at my school on there website.
    Schools may vary widely... some may have information in a printed paper course catalog, a parent/student handbook, or a letter sent home... while others may have information online within a school website, district website, school board policies, etc. The point is to find the source documents. The school can be held to these policies/practices.

    On the other hand, as you mentioned that this is a small school, is this a situation where "everyone just knows", information travels by word-of-mouth, and there is little documentation?

    One way or the other, you may wish to consider what information may help you move forward... for example, some things to look for:
    - is there a waiting list for the excel class?
    - is there a window of opportunity for add/drop after the term begins?

    From your description in another post on this thread, it appears that teacher recommendation or teacher referral is the way to get into the advanced class; Therefore speaking to your teachers proactively may help them keep you in mind when it is time for them to recommend/refer students next year.

    Originally Posted by DigitalPixels
    There are 150 kids in my grade and 60 in my grade are enrolled into the Language Art excel class, percentage wise 40% of kids in my grade are enrolled into the Excel Language Arts (this is about the same statistic in every grade at my school).
    This sounds like 5 sections of 30 students each: 2 sections advanced, 3 sections at grade-level. Am I understanding this correctly?

    It would be unusual for the number of students who qualified for the advanced class to exactly match the number of seats available. Are there other kids who qualified for the advanced class and did not get in? Does the school cluster group these advanced students together within a section of the grade-level class and have them work at their zone of proximal development?

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    Originally Posted by puffin
    It seems schools do mostly whatever they like.
    Unfortunately this may be true. While we have rule of law, legislation can change slowly. Additionally, not all families have the financial means to hire an attorney/lawyer/solicitor to point out all pertinent existing laws and force compliance with them. (In the present case, Michigan appears to have no gifted education laws.)

    That's where advocacy comes in... often individual changes can be made, where it may be too time-consuming to change a policy/practice statement and/or a law.

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