Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Advice about first grade and teachers...

I was wondering if I could appeal to the collective wisdom around here about finding a 'good fit' for my son next year when he's in first grade. I had a conference with my son's Kinder teacher last night and she asked if I had any ideas in mind for what might be a good fit for him and I wasn't sure what I should even look for.

Background on my son: We've never tested his IQ or anything like that but have some reasons to feel he might be gifted. When he was around 2 years old he started to become very interested in cars and learned to identify about 80% of the cars we could see on the road by make and model. He remembered so so many of them and could identify them just by seeing a tiny bit of the headlights or taillights, etc. So that was definitely an unusual skill.

When he entered kindergarten at the local public school he knew his letters, letter sounds and a few sight words, was starting to figure out sounding out some words. Now at the end of the year he seems to be testing at about a 3rd grade reading level, both in guided reading and on the computerized testing they do each week. He's also doing well at math although they seem to test that with less detail. His teacher said that he understands concepts at a deep level and that she's going to put a 'possibly gifted' designation in his file for next year. They give the CoGat to all 1st graders to screen for possible giftedness. Overall, the school seems to be very good. It's highly regarded in our city and has been established for over 20 years, has lots of good programs, seems to be full of caring people who know their stuff at all levels. Lots of sweet kids and good families too.

So that's all the good about kinder but the bad is that he's had lots of trouble with his behavior. His teacher is as sweet as she could possibly be but was very worried about his ability to focus (she's been suggesting ADD but I'm not sure it fits exactly). He's gotten in trouble all year for talking to friends, getting out of his seat, disturbing instruction time, doing sloppy work, etc. His handwriting is not particularly good and he's not very careful when he colors, glues, etc, although he's been getting better. He doesn't seem to have trouble getting along with other kids and enjoys socializing with his peers (a little too much, evidently).

I had a conference with his teacher yesterday and she mentioned that they're gearing up for their recommendations for placement next year in 1st grade and wondered what sort of teacher might be a good fit for him. I'm not 100% sure and wanted to get some advice from people who maybe had kids that fit a similar profile. My instinct says that this year's teacher was a bit too permissive (she doesn't discipline until a few infractions, tends to forget to follow through on certain consequences, etc) and a little disorganized. On the other hand, she loved to pull in extra information, let kids explore topics more deeply, and other great things. However, my son is still intimidated and didn't want to talk to her much, which concerned me. I think it might be because he was getting in trouble so much.

So basically, what do you think the 'ideal' teacher for a gifted but energetic little boy might look like? He's tricky to discipline because he's sensitive but doesn't tend to show it and he also likes to explore the limits of the rules a bit. I'm sure this is highly individualized but I'd love to hear about other people's experiences.

I have a sensitive 2e boy who is pretty different from yours, but it sounds like yours would benefit from something similar - my #1 request when that form comes out every year is "structure." You want someone who keeps the class running on the same schedule every day (with clear, repeated warnings when it has to differ), with extremely clear expectations. That's also a description that the school system can accept without feeling like you're putting down his current teacher, which you don't want to do for multiple reasons. You can phrase it as "DS does best in a very structured classroom, with clear and explicit instruction about what is work time and what is not, but also benefits from a warm and caring teacher." Believe it or not, it is possible to get both in one teacher - we have it now in 3rd grade, and his progress has been amazing to watch. I'm going to be so sad when we have to leave her for 4th.

Thank you so much! Yes, 'structure' is a great word to use and describes what I think he might need very well.

Some teachers are more or less willing to differentiate. Are there any advanced cluster classrooms? Those teachers are the most prepared to differentiate to a higher level. A teacher with a family member who teaches a higher grade can be immensely helpful since they'll have expertise to tap into.

Are there any other advanced students or particularly good friends? When teacher request time came around when DS was in elementary, we didn't request a teacher, rather, we requested he be placed in the same class as a specific student.

Another consideration would be looking for a teacher who embraces innovative seating. Some teachers are early adopters of exercise balls, bean bags, etc *in place of* traditional classroom seating. This might be ideal for your child also.

Keep your eye on ADHD type behavior. Simply adding structure can backfire - especially if above-grade level work doesn't pan out. More structure tends to equal more opportunities to get into trouble (and increased social problems).

I totally agree with Elizabeth - but I get sanne's concern, too. There is a world of difference between "structure" and "rigid", but don't assume your school sees it. I have been surprised at how much our schools' perceptions of teachers can differ from that of students and parents. If you can, it's helpful to talk to other parents, but do keep in mind their perfect teacher could be the exact wrong match for your kid. Just try to get a sense of the teacher's classroom management style, if you can.

From our experience, I would particularly watch out for any teacher the school calls "strict". In my view, those teachers weren't strict, they just yelled a lot. And they were always angry because they didn't know how to control their class, and didn't set or apply clear consistent rules, so the class was always badly behaved. So what the school saw as strict was actually the opposite of structured. And a teacher full of negative emotion can have a brutal effect on a sensitive kid.

In contrast, we have had several teachers *I* would describe as quite strict. But they were warm and nice and never, ever, raised their voice. They were seen as "easy" by the administration, not strict at all. But they had very clear rules and well defined expectations, and the consequences were always, always implemented and totally predictable. And implemented in total calm, with no emotion, just matter-of-fact consequence and matter-of-fact return to business as usual. The kids knew exactly what they were supposed to be doing, and they sure did it.

The kids I know with ADHD, or super-sensitive, or otherwise volatile thrived with these kinds of teachers. On the other hand, warm, cuddly, happy teachers who didn't set boundaries and never carried through on consequences resulted in major behaviour problems for the same children, despite the teacher being loving and wonderful. But no structure. Not a bad teacher, just a bad match.

On a different note, the best aid for attention issues is engaging work. Nothing sets off my kids' ADHD like make-work, especially when their desire to avoid boring worksheets is exacerbated by writing disabilities. It takes a lot of motivation to do your work despite 2E issues. When the work is mindless, it's so much more appealing to, say, wander about and chat with the other kids. So in a perfect world, you want a teacher who can recognize that hard work is part of the solution, even when - especially when! - he is not doing the work assigned. And who gets 2E, and is able to help you work out the differences between "can't" and "won't" in both schoolwork and behaviour. It's a rare and wonderful teacher who can understand the need to both support weaknesses AND challenge strengths at the same time - but your school sounds like they might be a pretty rare place, so it's worth having the conversation. Good luck!

Sanne, thank you so much for your input, lots of good things to think about. I don't think they do clustering in 1st grade but I'm not sure. I think it starts a bit later, like 3rd or so. My son does have a 'best friend' this year and there are several very smart kids in his class. I'll ask his current teacher about the differentiating part and stuff like that.

Can you tell me a bit more about times when you think adding structure doesn't pan out?

Platypus, thanks so much, you've done a an awesome job saying things I was thinking but couldn't figure out how to express. I know exactly what you mean about 'strict' being a euphemism for yelling and see a teacher like that in my son's Kindergarten group. This year my son has a teacher that's just like you'd described as far as being warm but not following through and I think he's just not mature enough to handle that much freedom yet.

Your last paragraph describes my son very well... a lot to think about on the ADHD side of things still for sure. Thank you so much again!!

For my son, the jump from Kinder to 1st was a lot more sitting still quietly during lessons, waiting in lines, and transitions between scheduled activities and lessons. He was bored out of his mind, the cluster classroom and pullout where not near meeting his needs. The structured day plus boredom caused him to be getting into trouble for talking out of turn. The teacher said his behavior was "normal" and "typical", but his classmates didn't react that way. He was ostracized, bullied, and stressed to the point of becoming physically ill.

He has ADHD which was hiding his academic abilities - and his academic abilities were hampering identifying his ADHD. After getting those sorted out and getting him onto medication for the ADHD, he needed acceleration. He is homeschooled now, unmedicated, and radically accelerated. He works at a slower pace and with lighter courseload than is typically associated with his grade level.

He can't handle a structured day or structured classroom setting. However, he needs the structure of pace charts and clearly defined assignments. He absolutely flounders with reward/punishment structures and will break out some serious oppositional behavior in those contexts. Fluid daily routines and cognitive behavioral therapy rather than reward systems are necessary for him.

Whenever I see features of ADHD along with the child not receiving appropriate education, my momma bear hackles raise. I don't think I can overshare my son's before-after. ADHD medication was like taking a mask off. I had been very resistant to the idea of ADHD because I didn't understand what the disorder was. My son is **not** at all hyperactive and does not have short attention span, so I didn't think it applied.

Thank you so much for sharing Sanne. I see a lot of parallels, although here it was Kindergarten that added a ton of 'sitting and listening' time that threw my son for a loop this year. It's helpful to hear about your experiences and I'm getting some better ideas of what to look for in the upcoming school year. I'm so sorry your son had such a hard time at school and that he was bullied. I'm glad that he's found a path that's working for him so well.

Old school and doesn't stand any nonsense are also codes for rigidity and inconsistentcy in my experience.