Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WISC-V results

I see that full scale must the bottom line result, but what is GAI? It does not appear our child qualifies for help from Davidson. The examiner's notes include "very superior" and "scored higher overall than 99% of individuals in his age group". It appears the Davidson cut off is 99.6% or higher. What other resources are out there for these kids? He's 9, in 3rd grade. We really need support as our school district has so far done nothing.

Deleted image of test results

These results were given during testing that was comprehensive and included ADHD screening. Other tests administered were Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System, Test of Variables of Attention, Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function.

We did not walk away with an ADHD diagnosis, but were encouraged to "revisit this" if school became challenging at any point in the future as he may be able to compensate now but that could become more challenging in the future. The notes from the examiner included that our child was deficient in isolated areas of executive function. The notes say our child asked repeatedly if the tests were to be over soon, but was also eager to participate and friendly throughout the process.

Our current concerns are that he is not extended academically (no acceleration at all) and he does not seem to have an appetite for more academic work at home. Without school support, I'm afraid we are kind-of stuck at the moment. The last thing he wants to do when he gets home is more school work. We really need differentiation.

Unfortunately, I would characterize our school district as rural, with a total student population of fewer than 3000 students in K-12. Homeschool isn't realistic as both my husband and I work full-time without the flexibility to drop a day. He is not old enough to care for himself if we have to do office work from home for days on end.

If Davidson is out, I'm looking for something somewhere else. Or, would it be worth an application anyway with this result despite a borderline ADHD diagnosis?

His GAI is actually exactly the same as his FSIQ, so that's not a qualifying score either, and he only has one index score in the DYS range, where he needs two.

Have you tried your state gifted child association? Your NAGC state affiliate may have a better sense of your local resources for GT. If I recall correctly, you are also in a state that has a highly-regarded GT center at the flagship state uni. You might try contacting the Robinson Center, which serves a broader range of GT learners than Davidson does.

What are the primary concerns that you as parents, and he as the student have? Is he currently unhappy with school?

Looks like he would qualify next year for the grade 4-6 Duke TIP programs, which would give access to summer programming. Robinson Center has summer programming starting at students leaving 5th grade, and Saturday programs for K-8, with optional concurrent parent classes. He will meet criteria for the summer programs, and there are no criteria for the Saturday programs. Also, there are multiple options, from supplement to full-time school/early college track, for students beginning in 8th grade, with entry points to full-time at 8th and 10th. Where you live in the region, these might be worth investigating: https://robinsoncenter.uw.edu/

Feel free to PM me...we are in WA and I am happy to help in any way I can.

GAI is General Ability Index (document dated 2007, coincides with WISC-IV. WISC-V is the current version of the test but I am unaware of a new GAI document published to coincide with WISC-V).

While the scores which you posted do not meet the minimums posted for qualification to the Davidson Young Scholar (DYS) program, help from Davidson is provided free to the public in many forms including:
- information on the Davidson Database,
- this public forum,
- guidebooks,
- the Educators Guild (which you may wish to mention to your local school).

Is 99.6% a typo, or what is your source for this figure? The DYS Qualifications page mentions "scores in the 99.9th percentile".

What are you looking for? In-person classes for weekends or summertime? On-line classes for after school? Events at libraries, museums, a college campus? Assistance for parental advocacy?

Your child's score may qualify for Mensa membership and depending on your area they may have gatherings for children.

Unfortunately, many schools do nothing until parents begin to research, document, plan, and meet to advocate. Advocacy tips here.

What is he interested in? Many families nurture their children's curiosity and provide opportunity for enrichment in the home as a regular part of family life, ranging from extensive stacks of library books in areas of interest, to activities, to travel.

Often an observant parent can find a teaching moment and relate a child's interests to academic concepts... math, engineering, history, etc. There are many resources listed in the Recommended Resources forum, also at Gifted Homeschoolers Forum (GHF).

As the other scores are not near the cutoff (12 to 20+ points below cutoff... generally a full standard deviation below cutoff), I would tend to say no. But I will also ask whether the tester was familiar with gifted. The working memory and processing speed are significantly lower than other scores...

Sorry it's taken me so long to come back around. I really and genuinely appreciate the comments. I acknowledge that me not responding did not say "thank you for the time you've given" from your prior replies. Please accept my apology. I did read the responses, but I'm pretty overwhelmed with where to go next so I shut down. I apologize.

The school district promised the world and I'm seeing nothing... so I'm back.

I've enrolled him in a JHCTY math course, and that's going just okay. It's not what he needs. He is not interested in more school work at home. Gosh if that isn't going to be an expensive mistake. I'm glad I only did 3-months for $800. This kid needs a totally different format. He needs to be engaged. JH is not engaging at all.

For math, the public school is offering extension worksheets, but no accompanying instruction. The teacher doesn't have time to instruct him. He's making his own methods up, which sometimes works, and sometimes is way wrong. He can only figure out so much on his own, and I don't really want him practicing incorrect math. Without a feedback loop, this is meaningless and perhaps harmful. For ELA and science, no extension.

We are in a very small district, outside of Portland, OR. The drive into Portland is ridiculous, so that is out of the question. Seattle is 3 hours north. I've got to make-do with what we have. I will look to the advocacy tips posted above, and continue to be "that parent" at school.



We didn't go into this looking for an IQ score, we went in looking for help with Executive Function. We are at such conflict at times at home, with his attention, that I feel like I've broken his spirit at times. Without a diagnosis (what I was really hoping for, if I'm honest with myself), I don't have any resources. We already knew he is very bright. This IQ number helps, but it's not the magic bullet.

The tester administered IQ at the same time as 2 other tests, in a 3-hour session.

She (Psy.D., N.C.S.P.) said that he had significant difficulty with one particular test she administered, which I understood as a dot-to-dot, called "Trail Making" within the Delis-Kaplan test. He breezed through the dot-to-dots that were 1-20, then A-Z, of course but did poorly with a dot-to-dot that went 1-A-2-B-3-C-4-D-5-E-6-F ... and so forth. He could not finish it in the time given, got very confused and frustrated, had to start over many times at 1-A... He scored a 2 on that test particular test. Delis-Kaplan score overall was 10, which the tester said is "normal".

He was also administered "Test of Variables of Attention":

"X's score of 0.66 falls within the borderline range and suggests the presence of some attention problems, particularly ADHD."

From the WISC-V read-out:

"His two lower scores, which are still well above average, are in the areas of Working Memory and Processing Speed. Working memory refers to X�s ability to attend to and hold information in short term memory while performing some operation or manipulation with it. Working memory is highly dependent on the ability to sustain attention and concentration on a task. Processing speed refers to X�s speed and accuracy in visual scanning and tracking activities and his fine motor output speed. While X would not be characterized as a child with a processing speed deficit as his score is still above average, his speed does not match his level of ability in other cognitive domains."

Circling back, I was looking for something, anything really, that says "here is the magic bullet". Here is what we do to help this child. He's falling through the cracks at school. I thought maybe the EF issues we see might have affected his IQ score, which might then open some doors here at DYS. I see that isn't the case.

The number-letter switching condition of the DKEFS trail making test is actually the one most diagnostic of EF skills, and suggests a significant challenge in this area, especially in cognitive shift (adaptability, flexible thinking). I would suspect that EF concerns are indeed affecting his performance in school, as well as (likely) his access to effective social and emotional problem-solving strategies--which in turn contributes to conflict particularly in his closest relationships.

A diagnosis can be helpful, but the more important take away from this eval is that he presents with significant personal and normative weaknesses in changing strategies when his attempted solution to a problem (of whatever nature) is ineffective. My experience with this quality in a cognitive profile is that they tend to get stuck, and dig in their heels when confronted with conflict, which just escalates the situation. They often need to be taught how to deescalate their own emotional reactions, and then apply strategies to "back out", analyze the problem objectively, sift through, and then select and attempt multiple alternate solutions.

Thanks for the feedback, aeh. We got this same feedback from the doctor. I still need hard skills to practice in this area with him. We are working on it. Getting stuck, not being able to switch. Those are exactly the words she used in the post-test meeting with us.

Do you know of any particular strategies we could try to learn? We play board games, and I notice that even when his strategy is failing, once he gets his mind set on something, he'll follow the idea to his death.

A great example is in Monopoly. He will decide ahead of his first roll that he wants the green and yellow properties. Even if he lands on red, and others have picked up green and yellow ahead of him, he has a very hard time switching to a new strategy. He wants to pay off (buy) the players with the cards he wants, rather than going for a different series (red).

In math, he will decide how to do a problem and pursue it even after it is clear the answer is only directionally correct, and will not yield the absolutely correct answer. Then, he will guess. I'm working on his specifically with this issue in math but it's in every aspect of his thinking / personality. I try not to stomp this trait out too much, because in many ways, his approach to math is very good. He can easily eliminate answers that are incorrect in multiple choice, and often chooses the path of least resistance, which shows he has great number sense. I don't want to kill that.

When one reviews the literature, some of the interventions that appear to have the best effects on EF include traditional martial arts training (both physical skills and character development), aerobic exercise in a fun, noncompetitive environment, and stress-reduction practices in combination with character training. Also, training in problem-solving skills, especially in a natural context. In the context of a board game, this might look like narrating some of the options, and their possible outcomes: "hm, it looks like I already own one of the green properties. What are some possible choices? What might happen if you choose that? (try to buy the other greens--still won't have a monopoly) (try to buy the green from me--I might say no) (try to buy a different color to gain a monopoly--might be able to do it and build hotels, or someone else might buy one of them and prevent the monopoly) Now that you've thought about some possibilities, which one is the most likely to accomplish your goals?" Then make a choice and take the consequences.

Sometimes it helps to brainstorm multiple prospective solutions before entering a possible problem situation, and discuss the many possible outcomes that may result. Then, in the live situation, you can cue him with one or more of the alternate strategies.

Incorporating some stress-reduction strategies (deep breathing, counting down, progressive relaxation, positive self-talk/cue phrases, etc.) can help with cognitive flexibility as well, as almost everyone becomes more rigid when anxious.

The root of every behavior issue we saw the NP about is in this failure to be able to switch.

We called it hyperfocus going into the session.

Actually, I take that back. The other really troublesome thing is his difficulty with doing things in a sequence... Ask him to do X, then Y, then Z (even in a routine that should be well known). He forgets or gets distracted. "Please empty your lunchbox, hang up your backpack, and put your shoes away" is very difficult, even with visual cues like a list. He's had this same ask daily since Kindergarten. He should have it down by now you'd think.

Hyperfocus here, lack of focus there. That is why we went to the NP in the first place, asking about ADHD.

I accept that this switching concept is something we need to work on with him, but without the hard skills, I'm not sure we are making significant progress. Thank you for the example above for coaching. If only I had a manual.