Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Help Interpreting WISC-V results

(I'm hoping this doesn't double post - I'm still in the "new person 5 post moderation period", but I tried to post this topic 3 days ago and waited in case it was stuck in moderation. Maybe I just didn't press submit? Anyway, if it comes up twice, we can delete one).

Hi all. I'm hoping some of you could help me better understand my DD7's recent WISC-V scores. Per previous posts, we had her tested following being surprised by her school achievement scores (99%) and seeing some signs of potential fine motor issues/dysgraphia. We're new (or newly aware?!) to the world of gifted parenting.

Our DD's FSIQ came back lower than we expected, but we're also seeing a big spread in her subtests. I understand PSI and WMI are generally lower in gifted kids. Our nueropsych said a GAI wasn't generated because it wasn't significant. (Can anyone confirm this? I couldn't find any kind of calculation table for the WISC V online).

In the report we received, DD was confirmed with having dysgraphia/DCD as it relates to fine motor dexterity. She was also flagged as having inattention symptoms throughout testing and some signs of executive function area weaknesses (difficulty with proactive interference, shifting from one task to another and timed tasks). Extensive notes in the report indicate her as being distractable, fidgety, standing up/moving frequently, becoming impatient with instructions and trying to begin tasks before instructions were finished, etc., which increased as testing wore on. It was also noted that she gave fast (disinhibited) answers then quickly changing them to the correct answer once she realized the first was incorrect, etc. Our DD def appears to have more energy than girls her age. The nueropsychologist stopped short of officially diagnosing ADHD due to parent/teacher surveys that indicate she's compensating relatively well at school/home. However, I'm concerned the scores we're seeing are being effected by a 2E type profile. I'd go into more detail but don't want to overstep in terms of keeping info confidential.

WISC-V
Similarities 16
Vocab 17
VCI SS 136

Block 14
Visual puzzles 13
VSI SS 119

Matrix 11 (seems low - not sure why?)
Figure weights 15
FRI SS 118

Digit Span 13
Picture Span 12
WMI SS 115

Coding 11
Symbol Search 8
(Cancellation 12)
PSI SS 98

FSIQ 128

WIAT-III
Math problem solving 131
Alphabet writing fluency 134
Sentence comp 127
Numerical Operations 116
Spelling 145
Math fluency addition 90
Math fluency subtraction 101
Written expression 143
Math fluency 96
Mathematics 126

She also did some reading tests and scored in the 99% for rate, accuracy, comprehension, fluency. We already knew this was her strength.

I don't know much about the attention tests that were given, so I won't list those unless someone knows much about them (TEA-Ch). The report notes she exhibited several 'soft signs' on the motor exam indicated frontal lobe immaturity.

Oddly, she extremely self-regulated and flexible *emotionally*, but maybe that routes through a different area of the brain? I had never thought of her as having ADHD type or inattention issues, but she's also always been in a school environment where she's allowed to move freely/fidget, speak to peers, etc.

Any thoughts or interpretations of the results would be helpful. Is it possible to calculate her GAI? Could a 2E profile be bringing down her abilities in the areas she showed relative weaknesses?

I will say that her GAI would be 129, which is most likely why the provider didn't report it, as due to the spread between indexes and subtests it wouldn't be that much more helpful than the FSIQ.

Actually, her achievement scores are pretty much in line with her best estimate of cognitive ability (verbal comprehension), with the exception of slightly higher spelling than expected. Academically, she doesn't actually have relative weaknesses, outside of math fluency, most likely originating from the factors that resulted in the diagnosis of dysgraphia.

She does have mildly higher verbal abilities than everything else, but you knew that already. Sometimes ADHD-type symptoms are related to this kind of profile (also conceptualized as nonverbal learning disability).

ETA: just read your original (probably soon-to-be-deleted) double post. In answer to the question regarding high written expression scores, but difficulty with classroom writing: there is no measure of extended writing at this level, nor is it timed, which means that the test allowed her to demonstrate her language expression skills more so than her handwriting limitations.

Thanks all. I'm just concerned that her overall FSIQ isn't as high as we were expecting AND that the examiners report has over 2 pages outlining her attention/distractability issues during testing. IE, during assessment task, she stopped to stand up and perform a routine for the examiner... She's a diehard extrovert/social person. The emphatic description of her less-than-focused testing state + the repeat notes about how she would have gotten more correct if she hadn't been disinhibited in speaking make me worry that:
1) we're not seeing a true reflection of her abilities and
2) she may have more ADHD symptoms than I ever considered before!

Truly, we knew she had a lot of energy, but since she has never been in a typical school environment, we haven't seen a lot of problems reported with attention. I also wonder if we (her parents) were/are just less educated about what ADHD looks like in girls.

I'm trying not to get too hung up on scores, but I'm concerned about her spread (38 pts between VCI and PSI) and that her scores all around were effected by her relative weaknesses.

She's doing fine in school except for writing tasks, which take her a long time and frustrate her. She recently used the term "lazy" to describe herself (in reference to writing) and that broke my heart for her. Before 2nd grade, she was in a preschool/no-grades kind of environment with no rigorous academic instruction. Now she's at a self-paced curriculum/mixed age classroom, and she completed 2nd grade work between Sept 2016 - Feb 2017 (5 months, not including holidays and a vacation we did that had her miss 3 weeks of school). She's now in "5th grade" for Language Arts and Reading, "4th grade" for spelling, and "3rd grade" for writing. Science/history are done as a group.

Her school achievement scores on the SPS (Scantron Performance Series) were done in Sept 2016 and Jan 2017 (4 months apart) and in that time her scores improved quite a bit for both Language Arts (from 91%/3.4 GLE to 99%/6.6 GLE) and Math (93%/GLE 3.4 to 96%, GLE 4.4). Those felt like big improvements for such a short window (esp given the holidays/trip!).

So basically, I don't know if I'm seeing her full abilities in her WISC-V scores. But maybe I'm just focusing too much on the numbers. Secondly, I'm starting to think we were/are under-prepared about the possibility of a 2E profile and what we could/should do to help. I'll be looking more into dysgraphia and what we can do to support her there.

Any thoughts/ideas on what we can do to help her with attention shifting and focus are also appreciated. I ordered "Smart but Scattered" on Amazon as a starting point.

Also, I'd love to delete the double post but can't figure out how. Mods - can you help get rid of the other post?

It is possible that these are underestimates of her ability; cognitive testing at this early age is always a bit of a question mark (though I think it can still be quite informative regarding current needs). If you want a more stable measurement of her ability, that will probably have to wait for another couple of years at least, especially if she does have something in the ADHD category. Many parents find that formal testing results change substantially after treatment (not that I am pushing meds if they are unwarranted; that is a conversation for your health care team).

It sounds to me like the observations and classroom reports are more important, as, on the one hand, challenges with self-regulation beyond what is age-typical, and negative self-concept about writing, and, on the other hand, high performance in classroom academics, suggest that
1) there may be a genuine need or second e in the area of executive function/self-regulation. And you already have a Dx of dysgraphia.
2) her current school placement has been fairly suitable for her.

So yes, you likely should continue looking into her EF and scaffolding for it, but also, don't stress yourself too much about it, since her school situation appears to be pretty good, outside of the writing (which you should have some recommendations for from your evaluator). Smart but Scattered is an excellent starting point. "Putting on the Brakes" is another classic: https://www.amazon.com/Putting-Brakes-Understanding-Taking-Control/dp/1433811340/ There is also a child-oriented workbook in the same series: https://www.amazon.com/Putting-Brakes-Activity-Book-Kids/dp/1433804417/

Per the ADHD concern, girls tend to have the inattentive presentation more often than the hyperactive/impulsive, which does make it more difficult to identify. However, at her age it could just be that her prefrontal cortex is just developing at it's own pace and will catch up. There is so much overlap between gifted traits and ADHD symptoms that it is very difficult to tell. As a mental health clinician, I always focus more on how well a child can focus during a conversation rather than schoolwork (too many variable in schoolwork). Anxiety can also present as ADHD, and it sounds like many gifted children have higher levels of anxiety than typical children.

If you're concerned about ADHD, I suggest having her evaluated for it. Attention can have a profound impact on IQ testing. My son's pre ADHD diagnosis FSIQ was high average, after ADHD diagnosis and treatment his GAI was extremely gifted range. It was dramatic! I explored further because there was so much difference between his FSIQ and his academic performance. Also to note, my son's teachers rated him very low for ADHD behaviors in the classroom.

My understanding is that ADHD is a diagnosis of elimination, and many other conditions can mimic the symptoms of ADHD. This is why neuropsychology will stop short of diagnosing ADHD. I would suggest the reason why the report contains so much detail is to aid in future diagnosis.

When my son was diagnosed, we went to a psychologist first to rule out anxiety or depression. The psychologist thought the anxiety was caused by his inability to control his ADHD symptoms. (He was right). The psychologist noted my son's behavior during conversation - like twallace mentioned. The psychologist also suggested that the IQ score could be a false low score.

Then we saw a pediatrician who specializing in medication management for ADHD. He started with health exam and took a lot of time exploring my son's sleep. I later learned that sleeping disorders, especially sleep apnea, present as ADHD in children.

The first medication worked for my son. Like I mentioned before, his IQ score shot up dramatically and he accelerated dramatically in academics too. He just turned 10 and is showing less need for medication in homeschool setting. When we started this journey - when he was 7 - he couldn't copy a sentence out of his grammar textbook. It was not possible, not with every accommodation I could find. He couldn't copy his math problems out correctly, he did the wrong operations, he solved problems and forgot to write down the answer, he lost his pencils (while using them), and would fall off his chair. :shudder: He doesn't have these difficulties in schoolwork, but he struggles with executive functions in life skills.

I made the mistake of believing that ADHD is all about hyper little boys. My son is not at all hyperactive! Had I realized what ADHD actually involves, I might have recognized it years sooner.

If you are looking for more info about ADD/ADHD, these links may be of interest:
- Understood.org - ADD/ADHD
- Understood.org more on ADHD
- Wrightslaw.com - ADD/ADHD

Thank you all so much! Your words and ideas are so helpful.