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Whether you are homeschooling, afterschooling, partial homeschooling and/or advocating:

I ran across this and thought it was fitting based on all the successes for our kids we have been hearning about:

"Believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the
confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the
well-worn path, and that will make all the difference." - Steve Jobs

Very nice words of wisdom. Thanks for sharing!

I have always told my children to have faith that all things happen for a reason, even when the events don't seem to make sense or we can't see the purpose. I think he's saying the same thing with an emphasis on following your heart even if it doesn't make sense or you are somewhat unsure of yourself. Nicely said and good advice.

That is lovely 'Neato! Thanks for sharing.

I'd add, "...and know that you can always change your mind AND your direction if things aren't working."

That gave me the courage of my convictions to do some unusual things. Why not? If they don't work, we'll just try something else. Not every decision has to carry the weight of the world with it.

That's beautiful, Neato. How fitting when it comes to parenting gt child.

Thanks for sharing Neato. And Kriston, I like your addition. We made some radical changes in order for DD to be in a positive learning environment. I believe that in the end all the "dots will connect" but it's easy to doubt it when making the decisions.

Thank you. I am trying to have faith that it will all work out for the best further down the road, but for years I traveled that well-worn path and I was very comfortable with it because there were plenty of others with me.

Traveling off that well-worn path can be very lonely and anxiety provoking.

Wonderful quote, 'Neato. It is very appropriate for parenting the gifted child. Sometime the well-worn path is not the best path for everyone. Besides, the road less traveled can be where the hidden gems in life can be found. You just have to be open enough to recognize them in your midst. I will take the 'follow your heart' path anyday!

And sometime you can meet some pretty good company along that path.
People who truly understand the uniqueness of your situation and the anxiety that it causes. The few friends that I've made here are worth more to me than the all of the other parents at DS's school who do not understand HG+ kids. Thanks everyone!!

(I just wished you lived nearby so that we could swap books and resources!)

And Lori H., I do understand the loneliness and anxiety that comes with striking out for uncharted territory. That is what makes me appreciate this group all the more! I feel like I have finally found company along the way.

Well everyone, especially Lori!, I saw that quote and it was the right quote at just the right time. Funny how that happens.

I spent the whole summer and most of last year agonizing over how best to procees towards a more realistic educational environment for the girls.

As a family we had a great summer and I found a powerful sense of calm in knowing my husband and I had come up with a really great plan that we thought would work well for the kids and the school.

I presented it to the principal, he was great, we're doing it!

Then DD8's teacher called me. She was great. Nice. Said all the right things. But I could just hear it oh so subtly in her voice. Mind you, I have a very sensitive ear. But I could just hear the tiniest "this mom is our of her mind what is she thinking" in her voice.

And because what I propose is very different and unconventional, that tiny doubt I think I heard in her voice cast a large shadow of doubt over me and all my careful considering!

Shortly after, I happened upon that quote and felt that the universe had smacked me on the butt and said: "Go on, go on, just because it's unconventional doesn't mean it's wrong!"

Just the right quote at just the right time.

As my father would say when I would ask him "Am I crazy to think this?"...

"Oh, you're crazy, alright! But just because you're crazy doesn't mean you're wrong. Those are two separate issues."

That's my dad for you.

But seriously, I think the Jobs quote is really, really good advice. If "conventional" were so great, then you wouldn't be looking for something else for your kids, right? Especially in your case, 'Neato, if the part-time homeschooling thing isn't working, you can EASILY bring them back to the school. No harm, no foul. Totally reversible! I love "chances" like those that are off-beat but involve very low risk! I mean, why not be unconventional in a case like that? What have you got to lose?

I'm a big fan of that kind of loose risk/benefit analysis. It often makes choices that at first seem scary appear quite easy and painless all of a sudden.

I hope it does the trick for your DD!

I think I like the way your dad thinks!

All due respect, I would't exactly categorize this as a low risk situation, though.

There is the risk:

Of alienating the teachers and the staff.

Of highlighting their intelligence thereby making them a potential target of a disgruntled anti-intellecual teacher who then makes it their mission to "prove" they're not "that" smart.

Of having the other parents make an issue of it and mislabel it as there is something "wrong" with them.

Having other kids judge them and make fun of them. It's easier for a group of children to leave the class then just one child. Kids tend to pick up on that.

The risk that the girls will feel painfully self-conscience about it, when other kids ask why they are leaving. Girls particularly are very succeptable to social mores and not wanting to be "different".

The risk that it doesn't work out well and is then used as an anecdotal warning to other parents dare they strike out on their own instead of following the advice of the all knowing administration.(I've seen this one in action already).

So I don't really consider this low risk and that's why DH and I have spent so much time discussing it and considering the possible complications.

However, we've determined that the risks here are smaller than the potential pitfalls of doing nothing, so, here we go.


Thanks for the well wishes!

Kriston: I definitely like the way your dad thinks! !!!! A wickedly sharp sense of humor always seems to pop any stress bubble that I happen to be dealing with at the time. Laughter is the best medicine.

And 'Neato: I hope everything works out okay for your DDs in school this year. I guess I'm not the only one sitting here on pins and needles as the new school year begins. But your quote was just the right message at the right time for me as well. I may have to print it out and tape it to my computer so that I read it every day. Again, thanks!

Now if I could just figure out what my heart is telling me, I would be all set!

I agree, 'Neato, that's it's certainly not no-risk, but I do think it's a lot lower risk solution than many others you could try. Worst case scenario: you decide it's a dismal failure and return to full-time public school. Even if the teachers and adminstrators were pulling for you to fail (and I don't think they are, at least not the majority of them), then they're happy that you're back. Fail, and they're happy to have you! Not so bad.

As for alienating the teachers, well, that's always a risk with ANYTHING you do for a GT kid. Teachers have a great deal of power over our kids and, frankly, over us. But I think the way you approached it was the best one possible, keeping the risk of alienation to a bare minimum. In fact, I might argue that in some ways it might minimize the risk of alienation, vs. say offering materials for differentiation. That sort of advocacy always seems to me to be ripe for making a teacher feel like we're telling them how to teach. Not a popular move! Doing it yourself, if done right, seems like it could be a safer approach. They don't have to know that you're doing the teaching because you don't think they'll do enough, as they would figure out if you advocated for more and more and more.

As for the highlighting their intelligence: I think that's inevitable, so I wouldn't even put that on the list, frankly. The only way to fly under the radar with kids as smart as yours is not to provide them the services they need...and even then, they'd probably act out in some way to show that things weren't working for them, thereby drawing attention to their behavior, if to not the cause of it. And I'm convinced that if you get an anti-intellectual teacher, it's game-over before you even begin. I don't think you can make ANY decisions with those people in mind.

The parent rumor mill may get your situation all wrong, but that's not a big deal (said Spock... ). Certainly not a big enough deal not to try the solution. Heck, they might get your girls wrong even if you kept them in school full-time!

The social and self-esteem risks for your girls are bigger deals, I think, but no bigger than the social and self-esteem risks of doing nothing.

And being used as a cautionary tale for other parents of GT kids is a valid concern, but not one that you can worry about, I don't think. I mean, of course I'm all for advancing the cause, but your own kids have to come first.

So did I refute every point? See? Relatively low-risk!

Feel any better now, or did I just annoy the fool out of you?

But seriously, it may be scary, but I think things like this feel scarier in the moment than they really are. (And I can say that because I've BTDT, and I was TERRIFIED! ) That's why I added the point about reversibility. If you can reverse it, it's a relatively low-risk decision. That's not to say there are no ramifications. But you're not ruling out other solutions by choosing this solution, so ultimately, the risk of truly screwing up with no way to fix it is pretty low.

Realizing that helped me to be less scared about our choices. Truly, the weight of the world does NOT hang on this decision. You can go back if you have to with no significant penalty. Sure you might be considered the weird family who homeschooled part-time for a while, but that's not the end of the world. Pretty much no one is going to care what you do.

It's the up-side to not being all that important to other people, I think. They're just not that into you...or your choices!

When we moved from a city to a small town, I found that the people here cared a little too much about what other people do. They just love to talk about other people who are different from them in any way. So here I am, older than most of the other mothers around here because they started having kids right after they finished high school--if they even finished high school, married to a guy who rides with the PGR and sometimes wears his leathers and a do-rag into the local stores. I made the mistake of putting a picture of my son wearing his leather vest and talking to some of the other PGR riders (who do look kind of rough, but they are really good people) into the homeschool yearbook. We had gone to visit a VA nursing home and my son and I rode in a chase vehicle, but people like to talk. I also made the mistake of telling another homeschool mom whose daughter is also gifted that I wished my son could go to the public school part time for things like band or the once a week gifted pull-out class. Another homeschool mom heard me talking and I found out that quite a few homeschoolers here think their kids should be kept away from public school, or government school as they call it, because of all those bad influences. I made the mistake of having only one child at home to homeschool because you are supposed to have a lot of kids. I was told by several homeschoolers that they always knew they wanted to homeschool and had more than one child so their kids would have someone to play with. One of the homeschool moms during homeschool PE talked about how "smart" her kids were because they were good at physical activities in front of my son who has motor dyspraxia. I sent an email that I thought was only going to the mom with the gifted daughter about how lonely it was homeschooling because we felt different but I accidentally sent it to the whole homeschooling group and I think my son was right when he said he thought we were being shunned. Some homeschoolers with our group went out of their way to avoid us at the Walmart.

When the principal, a teacher, and the superintendent told me I needed to homeschool my son after kindergarten, I made the mistake of complaining about the school to anyone who would listen. I questioned what I thought was a ridiculous policy of academic redshirting and I wanted to know why they thought coloring in the lines was more important than learning, and why they thought all little boys had to play football and all little girls had to look pretty and be cheerleaders. I talked to a parent of a child in another school district about our school when my son took swimming lessons a few years ago not realizing the swimming teacher was a teacher at the school. It seemed like everyone I talked to in this town was a teacher, a former teacher, or there was a teacher in their family and I was an outsider criticizing their way of doing things. My son's best friends' mother is a special ed teacher and she is the one person who I think really understands my situation, but I think she feels sorry for my son because he is all by himself with me during the school year. She thought part time school would have been best for my son but it is not allowed in our state.

My husband and I had to decide what was most important for my son's future. He needs to go to college because he won't be able to do jobs that require a lot of physical strength and ability. It might be fine for most of the kids in our small town who graduate high school after being on the honor roll for years but for some reason can only manage to get an average composite score of 19 on the ACT.

Oh, Lori. *sigh* I think you just worry too much about what other people think.

So Kriston, you really nailed me to the wall on this one!


That is what I was trying to do.

DH and I tried to go with the lowest risk highest reward combo, and I definately think we have a good plan.

And my friend just told me this morning I'm over-worrying what people will think.

What part of INTJ allows me to pick up everyone's "vibes". Well whatever it is, sounds like Lori's got it too.

It's definately helped me with advocacy efforts. I've been able to head off potential objections by eliminating them before they happen. I'm pretty good at predicting what people's sticking points are by "feeling them out" and gathering info.

But Lori, it's like bothersome background noise, you have to figure out how to tune it out. Or it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy........

I've actually engendered some friendships by bold faced walking up to people who clearly seemed annoyed by me and engaging them in conversation. As if it never occured to me that they wouldn't be interested in having a conversation with them. Surprisingly, often they became new friends.

Lori, it is hard living in a small town. I grew up in one. ((Shrug)).
You've got bigger fish to fry, yes?

Yes, I think you're really got a great plan. In my own inimitable, long-winded (!) fashion, that was my point, really. You don't have to worry about all that little stuff, because you have a great plan. Great!

And I'm with you on the intentional ignorance about people who don't seem to like you. If you're friendly to them, it makes it a lot harder on them to be nasty to you. At the minimum, it makes their two-faced nature a lot more plain to others.

Tune it out and it disappears! Yes!

I just had to comment on this! When I was younger I was always very shy and worried somewhat about what other people thought. I also hung back in situations where there were lots of people because I didn't know what to say. As an adult I became friends with the most outgoing extroverted person I have ever met. Every where we went she was friendly to everyone and much to my surprise, everyone responded in a positive, friendly manner! I learned a lot from her. I am now much friendly to everyone and most people want to be friendly back. Lots of other people are shy too but I don't think we always give others the benefit of the doubt. Also, I've also learned as I've gotten older, people are really tied up in themselves, and while they may give you a passing thought, they really aren't that interested in what you are doing.

These are things I so wished I had understood earlier!!! I'm trying to teach my kids to just be friendly to everyone and to try to ascribe the best possible motives behind people's actions that they can. I want people to cut me lots of slack, so I figure I can do the same for them!!

You go, girl!

Wow E&C, you just described my experience as well!

As an extremely shy introvert, I just had to comment!

I really feel for you Lori. We live in a very small community where everyone's nose is in everyone's business. If anything in town happens, then everyone else knows it is a matter of minutes. Gossip is the main recreational sport, closely followed by football. Actually, I'm convinced that football is just a socially acceptable reason for gathering to gossip! And anything that makes you different (whether you are different from the public school kids or from the other homeschoolers) makes you an immediate target. There are certain pockets of intellectual or social inbreeding that encourages uniformity. Anything outside of the norm is then suspicious and undesirable.

So it is hard to ignore these people, or to walk up to them and strike up a conversation. Being different here is similar to having the plague. People do avoid you rather than be seen speaking to you.

I remember when DS was beginning first grade. You will have to picture a six year old boy who very energetic, talks with great enthusiasm and energy about unusual topics, spends a great deal of time in an imaginary world of his own design, and who should really be in third grade. (not too unusual for this group!) We got a "friendly" letter in the mail from an anonymous neighbor suggesting that "he may be as smart as we think he is" but that he would have to learn how to adapt to the real world, and that we should seek intervention before it was too late.

Now you would think that when DS was accelerated a grade, people would have been a little more accepting of DS or of us. Maybe he really is that smart? Maybe kids with really high IQs are just a little bit different than your average kid? Maybe he is completely normal for who he is and doesn't need intervention in order to "fix" him (or save him before it is too late!). No. Even the other parents whose kids were in the gifted program stopped talking to us because now we were different from them.

So I hear you Lori. It is indeed a very lonely road to travel.

So maybe it is background noise that should be ignored. But when you are walking down the sidewalk on Halloween night and your next-door neighbor has stopped ten feet behind you, holding her kids back so that they will not walk with your son (and explaining loudly to her kids why she is holding them back)... and your son is stopped on the sidewalk, staring at the mom and her three kids because he really wants to go door to door with his friends, and not understanding why they don't walk the ten feet up to join him... then it is really difficult to not feel like you have the plague.

Sorry for venting on you guys. I guess this it struck a nerve. Must repeat original healing mantra...


Okay... I feel better now.

I'm so sorry for your experience ebeth!! What was the mom explaining to her kids on Halloween night? What is it they are saying makes your child unacceptable to play with?

I'm sorry, too, ebeth. But see, I think I'd pretend I didn't hear her, smile broadly and say loudly, "Well, hello! Please, join us!"

If someone is going to snub me, I like them to do it right to my face. Most people won't. And at least it makes it clear that this is THEIR problem, not yours.

So if I invite and they decline, I shrug lightly and say, "Oh, too bad. We'll see you along the way then!" Then I walk on with my head held high.

If you don't care that someone is being a jerk, it's hard for that person to get anything out of being mean to you.

I'm with you Kriston! There was a mom at school that just didn't speak to me one day in the library. She was with 2 other moms and they both were chatting with me and she just kept her head down and completely ignored me! I thought "good grief, we aren't in junior high!!!" and I sat down next to her, put my hand on her shoulder, and said "hey, how are you doing?" She smiled at me and started talking!!! Since then we have been on very friendly terms and I actually really like her! I don't think now that she was being a jerk, I think she was just being shy. Anyway, it worked out well in my situation!!

I'm all for that EandC!


I'm not down with parents who TELL their kids they can't play with your child because they are different. Especially when it's obvious the kid wants to play with the other child. That's just cruel to both children.

I totally agree 'Neato! I just can't imagine what that other mom told her children. The only time I've ever told my kids not to play with another child is if the other child is being mean to my kids and even then I've NEVER said it in front of the other child and I've always tried to get them to work things out first. I don't understand people just being against a child just because they are different.

Oh, you just don't live in my small, ego-centric, bizarre little community. Anyone who is labeled as different is seriously shunned. We have a boy on the block that has Asperger syndrome. It is a very mild case and the boy (5th grader) is for the most part very normal. His mom mentioned that he has been identified as gifted as well. For many years now the other moms on the block have always referred to this kid as "That Boy" (never by name). As in "We don't trust That Boy." "We can't let our kids play with That Boy." I have heard those comments specifically about this poor kid. When it became apparent that our son was quirky and very different from the other kids on the block (high energy with both mind and body going a million miles a minute, adult-like conversation since the age of 2, lost in an imaginary world where he talks out loud and acts out space battles, lego adventures, or whatever exciting book he is currently reading, etc.) then we began to get the same treatment. The next door neighbor makes no secret of announcing that our son is crazy for his vivid imagination and that they don't trust him. She will actually come outside and escort her kids inside, even if they are playing happily together. So I think on Halloween night she said something like that.

Note: We have tried to tell him that it is okay to talk and act out his imaginary stories at home with his legos, but not while walking on the sidewalk to school. He did this a lot in Kindergarten and 1st grade, but has mostly stopped. He is starting to understand the social ramifications of being different, but it is a slow process. I think his mind is just always racing and rarely sits still.

That's great advice, Kriston. I might have to crawl out of my shy shell and give that one a try!

That is, by the way, just about the same advice that I just gave to my DS while going to bed tonight. If a kid comes up and provokes you on the playground, then just smile and say "Oh, let's be friends!". Bullies only verbally tease you in order to get you to respond physically so that they can tell on you. If you let them know that you aren't going to play that game, then they will stop. Different situation here, but the same advice applies. Actually the parents are verbally bullying for a social effect, so maybe it is the same situation.... Hummm. Go figure!

Good point, ebeth. I think you're right that it's the same thing exactly. Bullying is bullying, regardless of age.

Good point, kids aren't the only ones that bully. Some adults are the worse offenders.

Wow. <huge relief!> Sometimes I see connections that I would never have seen without your input. Thanks everyone!

And now back to the regular program...

Ebeth--

Oh my gosh, yes! Do you live in the same town I do? "Gossip is the main recreational sport, closely followed by football"--that definitely describes my town.

I am shy, but I never experienced anything like this until I moved here.

Hey Lori, Hey E-beth.

I grew up in your town! Any chance you can move?

Thanks for the wonderful quote. I've posted it above my desk so I will see it often.