Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Odd VCI subtest - Help Interpreting Please

Mulling over this...I think I'd consider speech and language testing, too, as there is some suggestion of a difference between expressive and receptive language, with a possible relative weakness in expressive language (naming vocabulary, comprehension, writing vs vocabulary, verbal comprehension, and reading comprehension). How'd he do on the the oral language subtests of the WIAT? Your description does suggest a lower probability of dyslexia. The overlap of dyslexia with visual processing disorders is mainly in presentation, not in underlying deficits.

aeh - thank you for your help. Here are the WIAT Scores:

Oral Fluency 135
Word Reading 146
reading Comp 140
Pseudoword decoding 126
Spelling 124
Sentence building 112

Do these scores along with cognitive scores suggest a need for a dyslexia workup in a voracious reader?

I don't want to miss anything when we test but I also don't want to spend time chasing something that is likely not the source of his struggles.

I am thinking he is more likely ADHD with VPD and maybe dysgraphia. What throws me on the dysgraphia is that he can write just fine (cursive and print) when he is motivated which is rare. Prefers typing.

I am so dizzied up right now. The more I probe the more confused I am. Hoping the Neuropsych testing can give us clearer answers. I want to make sure the psych administers the right tests.

Thank you!!

I'd be careful about this. You will hear it said that the only consistent thing about 2e kids is their inconsistency. And it is very, very common to have real disabilities dismissed as a lack of motivation. It must be even worse to have that coming from your parent than from your teachers if there is actually a disability.

In the absence of any other noted concerns regarding reading, I would tend not to reach for dyslexia as an explanation in this case. His phonetic decoding (pseudoword decoding), reading fluency, and spelling scores are quite good, which are the main things I'd be checking for compensated/stealth dyslexia. Writing, on the other hand, might bear some more investigation, as the sentence building score is on the low side compared to his reading skills (though still at the upper end of the Average range). This is also consistent with the hypothesis either of some kind of expressive language concern, or a dysgraphic concern. Are there oral language achievement scores? (Listening comprehension and oral expression)

Regarding his handwriting: if you observe when he writes "just fine", there may be other patterns. For example, depending on the dysgraphic, a student might be able to write beautifully when composing text very slowly, or when copying text, or when writing individual words, but not when composing lengthy or complex analytical or creative writing. Many dysgraphics can spell, write neatly, or generate meaningful language, but not all at the same time.

ElizabethN you are spot on. Thank you for the reminder. It's just so hard to know what is a disability and what is a choice by the child. The school believes it is a motivation issue. That is why we are doing a fresh eval. To understand him better.
aeh - no other language achievement scores. He says he knows what to say but needs to say it verbally or have someone scribe for him. The school won't allow accommodations.
Thanks again for your wisdom. Will use it with our neuropsych.
Thinking of Paul Beljan since he is close and specializes in 2E.

I am always highly suspicious of "motivation" issues. No child instinctively prefers to do badly. We are almost all born with a desire to succeed, to feel good about ourselves and proud of what we do, and to make the adults around us proud, too. When a child "chooses" to fail, it usually means there is a problem for them with the alternative. The challenge, of course, is figuring out what that problem is.

Telling the difference between "won't" and "can't" is extremely hard. Especially as kids get older, and unrecognized issues compound and have more complex and diffuse effect on seemingly unrelated behaviours. However, if you step back and make an assumption that it really is "can't", and then stay with that assumption for a while and hunt hard for possible barriers, it's amazing what you may find. I find I need to let go of the discipline/ behaviour lens before I can really work with my kids to figure out "why are you struggling with this seemingly simple task? What skills/ resources/ support/ time do you need that you do not have?" And I learn a lot. There's almost always a hole between what what they are being asked to do, and what they believe they are capable of doing. Sometimes the hole is due to anxiety or missing social skills, sometimes it's LD (usually all of the above mix together). Sometimes it's meaningless repetitive rote-work that sends the ADHD into hyperdrive. Always, the hole makes the task difficult, and sometimes it makes the task seem impossible.

As others have noted, the critical question with twice-exceptional children is not whether they can do the task, but whether it just seems much *harder* than it should. They can usually - through super-human efforts and perhaps the right alignment of the stars - pull it off at least occasionally. But they can't sustain it. They may not be able to control it. And when simple tasks, like writing, don't become automated, they are using all their brain resources and working memory simply to produce the letters, crowding out their ability to think about spelling and what word is next, let alone more complex questions like what they want to write, or what the teacher is asking at the same time.