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I hope it is not bad style to start another new thread so soon, but I wanted to ask about parents' experience with various school approaches to discipline - what board members have been impressed with and what they've been disenchanted with; what works fairly, what is counterproductive.

I've witnessed two general techniques in my short-lived experience with schools: (1) prompt isolation, where the child is removed from the playground/classroom after two infractions of the rules (e.g., name-calling; this was in nursery school). This was a disaster for DS.

(2) His current school keeps a chart at the front of the classroom with colored bits of paper for each pupil. The initial color is green; after one infraction, the pupil is made (before the class) to change his/her color to yellow for the day; two infractions leads to orange and five minutes off recess; three to red and ten minutes off recess; blue means a visit to the principle and a note home. Perfect children who stay on green all week get some kind of sticker.

What do other schools do, and what approaches are most effective while still demonstrating respect for the child?

New threads are good. If you need one, start one!

Our K teacher used a similar system to the second one you mentioned, though I don't think she took recess time away for bad behavior. At least DS7 never told me about kids losing recess.

The 1st grade teacher seemed to follow strategy one that you mentioned, which was disastrous for us as well. Then, in a wrongheaded effort to be more positive, I think, she started passing out pennies for good behavior that the kids could use to "buy" junk food from her. But many kids in the class were losing entire recesses, and parents were not happy! One mom threatened to pull her child out if he missed another recess. "Find another way," she said, "he needs time to play outside!"

I always thought making kids walk/run laps would be a good, productive form of discipline, especially for the antsy ones who can't sit still. Making kids sit all day and then taking away their time to move around just makes NO sense to me.

FWIW...

I've seen both methods used. My only opinion is that if the system being used is causing distress, I would feel justified talking to the teacher. These kids tend to be truly humiliated in these kinds of situations.

I'd say for my girls there is an element of fear involved. But both are very quick to figure out the "formula" for NOT pulling a card or whatever is used to measure inappropriate behavior.

At Big Man's school last year (K in a GT school) they had a system that seemed to work really well - it sound similar to your second system - "best" was a rainbow card, and then subsequent infractions moved colors down to green, yellow, organge and red. To be frank, i don't remember exactly what happened at the lower levels, but i only recall there being one red (which made a big impact on big man) with one of his classmates - after a particularly bad tantrum i believe, when he was sent to the head-of-school's office.

On the positive side, at the end of each day each child colored a piece of paper with whatever color of card they had, at the end of the week if they had all rainbows or rainbow and no more than 1 (or 2?) greens they got a trip to the treasure box (huge deal for Big Man!) - they also bring it home as a sort of "report card" which Big Man was always proud to display . In addition, during each day they got stickers for particularly good behaviour (listening well, helping, etc.) on a "sticker holder" (usually some 5x5 sized piece of paper- in the shape of a fish tank, gum ball machine, etc.). At the end of the month, the top two with the most stickers got an extra something from the treasure box.

What i really liked about this was the emphasis on the positive. I also heard (and found) that the kids made a big deal of keeping their rainbow cards and encouraged eachother if one of them got "demoted" at any point. They WANTED their friends to be in green / rainbow territory, and would help eachother out to get back on the "right track".

I think in orange/red territory there was some recess loss, but again, i, thankfully, had no personal experience with that, and it was my understanding that it didn't happen too much, in part b/c of the positive environment in the class and how they helped eachother.

I know that changes somewhat in 1st grade + (less trips to the treasure box, for one), but since we will have a new teacher we don't know how it will all play out.

Wow, i write long posts... sorry about that!

Wow--all these systems sound so complicated compared to the system at my kids' school: any infraction (forgotten homework, talking out of turn, misbehavior on the playground, etc.) is punished by THE RED X. Kids who get a "red x" must literally stand on a red x painted at the edge of the playground during recess. The kids on the x's are supervised by a teacher. They are not allowed to talk while on the x. They are allowed to stand, sit, drink water, eat their snack, and be excused to use the bathroom.

Three red x's = A BEHAVIOR TICKET. The student is sent to the vice principal who gives them a talking to and writes out the ticket. The behavior ticket must be brought home, signed by the parents, and returned to the vice principal.

From my observations, some of the teachers overuse the red x to the point that some kids have so many that they never get recess. Of course, at that point, it doesn't matter to those kids at all if they receive another red x. Overall, the system works as a deterent to kids who are generally well behaved. It does nothing to solve real behavior problems, though.

My son's school uses the same "card system" with the colors and levels for the number of times that rules are broken. This year his 3rd grade teacher has a five card system (versus the 4 cards in 2nd grade) so he figured out on the very first day that this year he gets one more "warning" or chance to break the rules before the biggest punishment (trip to the principal's office and loss of all recess for the next day) gets handed out. This system is used for breaking classroom rules like talking, running in the halls, not turning homework in, etc.

I have a hard time with schools taking away recess, too, Kriston. That's both as mommy and OT, who knows that the need to move is huge for kids 10 and under. It's just ridiculous to take away recess and force stillness in a child when that often then creates more unrest and the child acts out further.

I personally liked the system at the Catholic grade school my older kids attended back in the 80s/90s. There was detention, plain and simple, where you did some work for the teacher - not just sit and be still. The discipline was based on the infraction. I remember two of my sons friends who did some vandalism and broke a window at the school. They received detention for a week after school - with the janitor. They cleaned the school and helped fix the window. Made perfect sense. More sense than sitting still in the principal's office.

I also think that discipline needs to fit the child. My child really isn't bothered too much by bringing home his chart without a stamp for good behavior that day. He says stuff like "well, I was only on yellow, that's only one time that I was not behaving." He'd be much more responsive to praise for the times he *doesn't* misbehave and/or to taking away something more valuable in his eyes than recess (ie: 5 minutes of free choice time or computer time). Unfortunately, the classroom doesn't really lend itself to individualized discipline any more than individualized education! I only see individualized behavior plans for kids who have IEPs in place around us. And then most of the time the people creating the plan don't really get it right anyway (much like the education thing, unfortunately).

I did forget to mention that the school uses TONS of positive reinforcements for good behavior.

We are new to the colors-and-consequences approach, and I agree that it is odd (and counterproductive) to cut back recess as a 'consequence' - after all, they only get 20 minutes a day to start with. What bothers me more is the kind of ritual humiliation entailed. The child must go to the front of the class and change his own color in front of everyone, and is, in effect, pilloried for the remainder of the day. DS found this upsetting (as would I), and we had a family meeting to tell him that our love for him was unaffected by the color of the day, and that as long as he tried to get along at school, we would help him sort out issues as they arose. I told him yellow was pretty good, actually - only one mistake!

Digressing a bit, Yesterday, we switched his backpack and forgot to give him his color chart (which the school, by the way, has never discussed with us). After school the teacher called to tell me he'd gone to yellow for hiding a piece of clay behind his back when she'd asked him for it (here, I fancy, you should imagine the theme from the exorcist playing in the background). Then, at the end of the day, he also called a girl a 'blockhead' (a la Lucy in Charlie Brown). We chatted and she said one favorable thing about him, but then concluded "I cannot tolerate disrespect towards me or the other children." I was taken aback by this comment and tone, and have since been trying to understand her severity.

We've been talking with a private school that takes a different approach. They insist on a consequence for every real rule infraction, but they make it short and swift (e.g., a short time-out), and the offender is asked to do something next day to make amends if there is a 'victim,' like write a note, draw a picture, or perform some kindness. Once the consequence has been administered, tho, it's subject over, let's move on to something else. I've thought about this approach for a day now, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

Kcab - thank you very much for that link. I know a number of people who will appreciate that article!

Our 1st grade teacher took away recess. And I never knew what was going on at school. I only got what I could drag out of DS. There was no school wide consistency. I would have loved a written explanation on how discipline in the classroom would work and a weekly behavioral report. Even a sentence would have been good.

Our kindergarten teacher had a green, yellow, red warning system. He was so great, it seemed he hardly needed a really strong disciplinary system. The kids adored him.

I like what Stuart Little has to say on the subject, when he agrees to teach a class as a substitute for a sick teacher:

"I'll make the material interesting, and the discipline will take care of itself."