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    Joined: Apr 2016
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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Hi everyone,

    Would love some advice on the SB5 and if these scores are realistic?

    Our daughter is 6, she was recently assessed with the SB5. Her results:

    FSIQ 146 / 99.9th%
    Verbal IQ 146 / 99.9th%
    NonVerbal IQ 141 / 99.7th%

    Subtests:
    Fluid Reasoning IQ 147 / 99.9th %
    Working Memory IQ 143 / 99.8th%
    Visual Spatial IQ 143 / 99.8th%
    Quant Reasoning 133 / 99th%
    Knowledge 131 / 98th%

    Can anyone tell me how inflated the SB5 scores might be at this point (late 2016)?

    We have the opportunity for full grade or subject acceleration at a new school next year. I’m leaning towards a more cautious approach until she’s a little older as I’m still finding it hard to wrap my head around everything. Curious if anyone can provide any information about current scores on the SB5 and how ‘real’ they are .

    Thank you.

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    What makes you think they might be inflated? Did she take the test more than once within two years or did you obtain the questions beforehand or something like that?

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    LAF Offline
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    aeh will hopefully weigh in on this, but if you want basic math (disclaimer, not my strong point!) here is some info for you.

    "Flynn has estimated the size of the Flynn effect on the Wechsler and Stanford-Binet series of IQ tests (the most widely used IQ tests in the United States) as being at about 3 points per decade or about .3 points per year (Flynn 1984, 2006)."

    Assuming that the version they used was the most recent version published in 2003 that means it has been out a little over a decade, and that would mean an inflation of approximately 3.6 - 3.9 points. That would still keep her solidly in Highly Gifted regardless of the Flynn effect. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

    I do not know what the confidence interval (Standard of Measure of Error) is for that test which may also either raise or lower.

    Please defer to aeh though, I'm just giving you a general idea but have no real experience whereas she is the expert in this area.

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    LAF Offline
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    Just adding that SB5 appears to have been normed on either year 2000 or 2001 census (I found differing info online), so figure 15 years at 3 points per decade (so say approximately 4.5 points all together). Regardless still HG+.

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    The bottom line is that she's smarter than you were betting on. wink

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    aeh Offline
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    LAF is correct on the Flynn effect. I would add that the data appears to suggest that the Flynn effect is more severe with examinees further from the mean, so the score inflation due to norm obsolescence may be more than the 4 or 5 points predicted by the Flynn effect. Other relevant factors are

    1) her age. At age 6, we are still looking at somewhat unstable scores. I doubt you will later find that she is Average or below, but the exact level of GT-ness may shake out differently when tested as a 9 or 10 year-old.

    2) standardization group. From what I recall, your DD properly belongs on the AU/NZ norm tables, which, unfortunately, do not exist for the SB5. Research on the kind and magnitude of error resulting from using USA norms for AU/NZ examinees is mixed, but generally suggests that it is not appropriate to do so, and that the error usually inflates scores (thereby proving that Aussies are more intelligent than Americans smile ).

    3) retest effects. Although there is not a huge retest effect going from one cognitive instrument to another, I notice from your past posts that this is her third test since age 3 (though the other two were versions of the WPPSI). Three administrations within three years does have the potential to artificially inflate scores due to practice effects, at least of the form of general familiarity with IQ tests. I would be extremely careful about having her tested again any time within the next two years, as she has now seen versions of the two major cognitive instruments (although she would most likely be tested using the WISC next time, and not the WPPSI, many of the tasks are the same, if not the exact items). You might want to "save" that assessment for when she is at least eight years old, when the scores are likely to begin to become more stable.

    For many children, it's also important to consider the psychological impact on them of frequent, repeated IQ assessments, as the experience may inadvertently communicate to them that there is something wrong with them, or that they are not meeting some unspoken standard of smart-ness. Although the previous two assessments (which are subject to the same caveats about extreme youth as this one) are about 10 points lower than this test, they still show a very capable young lady.

    In summary, it is likely that these scores are inflated in some way, but unclear just what the magnitude of inflation is. It is unlikely that correcting for inflation would drop her "true" score into the Average or below range, but quite possible that it would revert to the MG range in which she has twice previously scored (ETA: actually the top of the MG range, which is not all that far off of saying the beginning of the HG range), one of them as recently as this past spring. Although, then again, it may be that the SB5 captures aspects of her cognition that were not as accessible on the WPPSI.

    Regardless, at this point I would base grade acceleration decisions less on her exact LOG, and more on her current academic and social-emotional needs, including the executive function demands of the potential receiving grade, and the amount of scaffolding needed and available for any gaps or delays in EF skills she might have compared to NT students in that grade. In addition to the excellent acceleration resources indigo has posted regularly elsewhere, I would repeat my parents' protocol from my childhood, which was to place children into a grade approximately one to one-and-a-half grades below their "actual" instructional challenge level, to offset the increased EF demands, and to leave enough leisure time that life out of school could be as filled with play and self-directed exploration (e.g., swinging for hours, lying on the grass looking at clouds) as it should be at that age.

    Last edited by aeh; 11/27/16 03:03 PM.

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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Thank you for the responses everyone.

    Yes I’m referring to the Flynn effect. Just trying to get a feel for how realistic this score is !

    Aeh, yes that’s right we have tested her twice on WPPSI. The first was age 3 at that point we were considering ‘early’ entry age 4.5 - it was required by school we were applying to as they had an earlier cut-off. We didn’t end up going to that school.

    The second WPPSI we did as the 2 year re-test (we were leaving Montessori and heading into mainstream and once again needed to weigh up a grade skip as our DD is a July birthday which is the cut-off point in Australia).

    The WPPSI IV she did earlier this year had a very large discrepancy (-30points) between Verbal / Non Verbal. But it just didn’t feel right (the gap). It seemed in direct contrast to what we know about her and her ‘verbal’ abilities. It didn’t feel right.

    We’ve also had a really disapponting year at school (very small Catholic) - so we are moving to a new school (larger, public, gifted-friendly and streamed classes) next year.

    The SB5 was recommended by a new ed psych our eldest son was seeing (who is amazing and works specifically with many gifted children). We wanted to ‘save’ the WISC V for age 8 and didn’t want to do another Weschler test so we opted for the SB5 - he also said it was good for identifying non-verbal giftedness which at that point - was what we thought our DD was.

    Aeh - DDs Verbal IQ increased from 110 on the WPPSI IV to 146 on the SB5. Even with the Flynn effect that’s a huge difference right?

    Thanks for the good advice, we’ll wait and watch for now and if she needs more assessing later around 8 or 9 we’ll look at it then.

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    Yes, the increase in verbal is fairly sizable, even with the Flynn effect. It probably reflects a number of factors at once. Some possibilities:

    1. the day--at her age, she may have just been in a more testable frame of mind the second time around.

    2. the structure of the test--the SB5 Verbal IQ includes measures of many other factors, including each of the five composite areas (fluid reasoning, visual spatial, quantitative reasoning, working memory, accumulated knowledge), versus the WPPSI, which has measures of verbal reasoning (similarities, comprehension) and knowledge (vocabulary, information, comprehension), usually based on one of each (similarities, information). Verbal IQ on the SB5 doesn't really mean purely verbal ability, but verbal ways of accessing various cognitive abilities. E.g., verbal visual spatial uses a lot of directional terms and spatial sense. Most people who are verbally capable, but have indifferent spatial skills, would do poorly on it, despite their strong verbal cognition. If I recall correctly, she did well on several of these other areas, either on the WPPSI or on achievement testing. This is probably one of the reasons the psych said it was good for IDing nonverbal giftedness--it just isn't as heavily weighted for pure verbal ability. Did she actually do significantly better on verbal fluid reasoning and verbal knowledge? Those would be the closest one-to-one comparisons with the WPPSI.


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    The scores are most likely inflated some. Although DD had the WISC-IV at 6 and the WISC V at 9. She had very high scores on the first test but had perfect raw scores on all of verbal, FR, and SR tests on the later test, she also had very high WM and PS scores(140's). Maybe she was just able to do the long testing session better when she was older? We strongly considered a grade skip at the time of the last evaluation and her school encouraged it. However, I am so glad that we did not go through with it. Now that we are dealing with middle school and all that it entails I clearly see the advantage of age and maturity. I know that a grade skip has worked beautifully for some. While our daughter probably would have been better off academically in a higher grade you would have to move her up several grades at least in order to challenge her academically. She is socially and emotionally better off where she is. She is class president and plays basketball and volleyball. She also has developed the judgement and organization skills to easily deal with six classes (and six different teachers) at a time. We do classes through duke TIP and CTY for enrichment as well as their camps. I urge you to think about all the ramifications of moving her up, while it does work wonderfully for some, it does not for others. It is very easy to worry about them no being challenged and to get stuck in the weeds so to speak. Good luck with your decisions!

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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Hi aeh,

    I have the full report now. Her Verbal Fluid Reasoning was 17/ 99th% (non verbal FR was 19/99.9th). Verbal Knowledge was 18/99.6th%. So it looks like overall her Verbal IQ was a lot higher vs the WPPSI?

    NonVerbal
    FR 19/99.9
    K 13/84%
    QR 16/98th%
    VS 17/99th%
    WM 17/99th

    Verbal
    FR 17/99th%
    K 18/99.6th%
    QR 16/98th%
    VS 18/99.6th%
    WM 18/99.6th%

    The psych made a comment that she appeared to him to have a very strong visual spatial processing style in the way she answered questions and that typical of VS children - she needed time to think and answer the questions. So I’m wondering if maybe it was the WPPSI was more heavily timed and possibly the personality of the initial psych rushing through more quickly? I noticed the personality of the new psych, he was a deep thinker and took his time getting to know my children (in front of me) prior to the testing done in a separate room.. asking about their interests/ideas etc. The previous psych did nothing like this.

    Thank you for the invaluable advice here.. and the insights from both you and SallyMom - it’s much appreciated to hear from those that have been through this.


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