Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Long term memory of the preschool years.

Had a discussion last night with my kids (22 & 17 years old) about what their earliest memories were and what they remembered from before K. It was very little that isn't supported by pictures/stories. I myself only remember very little glimpses of myself before 5. I believe my earliest memory is when I was 3. But my husband (who is profoundly gifted) remembers extremely little from childhood even through his junior high school years.

This had me wondering about gifted kids & early learning. When my DS17 was 3-4 he was largely fascinated by animals. He watched TV shows, read books and knew an incredible amount of facts about animals more than many adults know. But he seems to have forgotten a most of this detail even by the time he was 7 or 8. (He was onto other topics like mythical creatures.) It's hard to tell exactly how much he retains from those years but he even looks at me funny when I suggest he knew that level of detail.

This started me thinking of how this corresponds to average kids "readiness" for school & what's often refereed to as being developmentally ready to learn to read. My experience is that 5-6 seems to be when people start remembering more details. And how even when talking about a gifted kid, if a subject has been learned as a 3 or 4 year old if it's not maintained it can be quickly lost unless it's continued to be studied or built upon.

Take for example language, a 3 year old gets adopted from a foreign country and is never spoken to in that native language again often looses that language unless someone keeps speaking it to them. I would imagine a 3 year old who learns to read, but is kept away from books (written material) for over a certain length of time would forget how to read. Or one who learns long division, yet gets bored with math moves onto other pursuits might completely forget. They might pick it up again easily, and I'm in no way saying they shouldn't be encouraged to learn.

I know there are kids who do are savants and do have incredible memories for things average people don't. I know they are an exception to what I'm talking about.

I'm sure there must be someone out there who has researched this. I;m mostly just fascinated. Obviously kids from that age must remember some of what they learn. They must build on what they have learned, and perhaps their brain is busy 'remembering' other details of the world around them. I really know little about how memory works.

P.S. Seems the "Recent Posts" is broken as it doesn't seem to be updating for me?

I'll have to look for the reference later, but my recollection of the research is that it is more common for PG kids to have extremely early memories (some back into infancy, or even, rarely, of the birth experience) than it is for NTs, but by no means uniformly so. Some individuals at every cognitive level have very good autobiographical memory, while others do not. Similarly for acquired knowledge and skills. Rate of learning is one thing, while long-term retention is another.

A general factor regarding autobiographical memory is that most NT children go through a process of memory coalescence between about age 7 and 10 (probably corresponding to a stage of brain development that involves a fair amount of pruning of neuronal connections), during which a reasonably stable, cohesive narrative of early childhood appears to be formed. Up until that point, free recall of early memories seems to be fairly even-handed. After that time, most people pare down their memories of early childhood to a set of stories that are told and re-told.

After I posted this I remembered something I'd read that the problem with longer term memories are often more retrieval issue than the memories not being there somewhere.

I also wonder if some of this is how much time & though you spend on those stories. I wonder if looking at pictures & telling and reliving more of these stories when you are 7-10 would cause a kid to keep more of them.

It's interesting that you posted this-- DD was recently chatting with me and a friend (also HG+ college student) about children's museums and the like-- and she recalled details of a children's museum visit that were a little fuzzy around the edges, but sufficiently detailed that I was astonished-- she was reminding ME of an outing which had occurred when she was 13months old. She had thought that she was "less than four" but she definitely wasn't confabulating/conflating different events into a single narrative, which was what I'd expected. In fact, I initially dismissed the narrative as not being an accurate recounting of a trip to a different location which had taken place when she was nearly FOUR-- because her details didn't match that trip. Then she started telling me other details, and I finally remembered, because she mentioned something really architecturally distinctive. It was definitely a day that I hadn't though much about in about 13 years.

There were some details, in fact, which were contrary to a photo taken that morning-- for example, in the photo she is holding a pair of shoes (which she loved-- and she reported that when I produced the photo later after hunting through a box of early photos), but it was not the pair that she wore that day. She had also remembered what she was wearing-- and what's more, she remembers things that I don't-- such as which car we took, and what I was wearing.

She remembered the layout of part of the children's museum in Minneapolis, circa 1999-2000. We moved when she was 18months, and went just once when she was 13months old, during a one-week period between getting her first medic-alert bracelet and having it resized for her tiny wrist. I know that because she was wearing it on her ankle instead, that day. I remember that because it dictated what kind of shoes she could wear (not her favorite ones in the photo), and it drew attention from another adult.

I have to think that memory is entirely authentic-- I remember the day fairly well, but it wasn't a "special" day which becomes the stuff of family lore or anything. The detail is stuff that I remember only because of my heightened anxiety about her-- it was really our first outing after her diagnosis, and it was stressful-- something that she also recalls. She recalled that we didn't permit her to venture where we couldn't be within arm's reach and maintain a line of sight to her, and that this was annoying. She also recalls wanting to play with the older of a pair of children, there with an older adult (grandparent?)-- the girl was about 7, and the boy was about 4 (I recall that family).

Many of her very early memories are like that, with sensory detail, and memories of people (but not necessarily their faces or identities, just what they were like and the social interactions/dynamics with others). She remembers colors and spatial details relatively well, too.

I also remember snippets of my very early childhood-- before age 3-- but DH categorically does not.

Sadly, DD had much better recall of some of that stuff (from before age 10) that she'd invested so much time into (she went through a Yad Vashem phase at about age 8, for example) a couple of years ago. I think that her PTSD and trauma has wiped places in her memory-- or at least impaired her retrieval so that it amounts to the same thing.

It was interesting to me that this astonishingly detailed and intact memory had surfaced so casually. I don't think she's ever reinforced it, so it has always just been there in her brain, I guess.

Anyway-- that's my anecdote about early memories.

I know that rehearsal is apparently hypothesized to be how memory is consolidated and how retrieval pathways are thought to work.

I'm not sure that rehearsal plays that large a role in consolidation/retrieval, at least for DD. I'm not sure that it does for me, either-- I recall things that have sensory detail associated with them, mostly-- auditory and tactile, for me personally. And they aren't things that I necessarily have thought about much during my lifetime. I can recall my great grandmother singing to herself (and not in English)-- she died when I was five, and I last saw her when I was three, so that memory is earlier than that. I picked something that I haven't considered in years for that example, btw-- that is, I went through my mental roladex of family members who died when I was a young child, and saw seldom beforehand, just to see if I had clear memories of it, and if so, what the nature of them might be.

I kind of wonder if the type of memory you're referencing isn't a different sort of encoding mechanism, though, Bluemagic. That is, purely informational material seems to be much more volatile long-term in kids. Is that it?

Because yes, I'd say that stuff seems to be much more use-it-or-lose-it. I knew (apparently) a TON about archaeology as a child of 4-6yo, but I recall very little about that now, and didn't even in my teens. It no longer mattered so much to me, I guess.

Oh- and it's also interesting that you used language as an example of this effect.

I was very definitely trilingual as a toddler-- and I was both verbose and fluent in all three. I am now only monolingual on a good day. LOL.

On the other hand, in high school, I had two friends whose first language was German, and I had no trouble understanding them when they-- and they both did this-- would inadvertently "insert" German terms into their spoken English when they came up short on vocabulary knowledge.

So I apparently can't dredge it up at will, but my brain has a built-in translator that is still operational and intact, as long as I'm not paying too much attention to the processing step itself.

It works that way for me when I'm overseas/immersed in a language that I know, too. I can verify that because I've had it happen in the real world.

But the point is that in the case of two of those languages, those were languages that I acquired as a baby and toddler-- and have emphatically not studied since, unless you count German/Dutch (and I do).

In fact, with the third language, my elapsed latency was probably 40 years or more before hearing it again from native speakers when traveling (and it is not a language related to much else or common elsewhere). But it was familiar enough that within a few hours, my brain was filling things in.


This is mostly useful when using public transportation and finding one's way around in a strange setting, btw, without offending the locals. It is certainly true that I seem to have a knack for languages-- but I don't think it's extreme, by any means. I know a few people like that, and I'm not one of them.

I was also trilingual as a toddler (and some would say, also verbose!), and still use two of those languages. I have no memory of being fluent in the third language, although likewise it comes back to some extent when in immersive language environments. I've also noticed that I can understand some conversations where, if you asked me to translate consciously, I wouldn't be able to pick out more than a few personal pronouns, yet somehow I can grasp the gist.

I consider myself good, but not exceptionally gifted, in languages, although I am pretty good at picking up accents. One of my siblings is the other way around--accents not so good, but strong metalinguistic skills, which I think provides an entry point to acquiring new languages through pattern recognition and code-breaking.

Returning to early memory, there are some researchers whose models contend that the retentiveness and clarity of early memories is connected to the age at which individuals acquire language--that we use language to store and retrieve memory to such a great extent that the absence of language prevents most people from either storing or retrieving early memories. Those whose earliest memories are sensory or emotional in nature may disagree.

My mother does this (also with German, in fact). She thinks she doesn't remember anything, but if she's at dinner with German speakers and someone asks her to pass the cabbage in German, she does it without thinking about it.

As to dredging it up at will.

I'm not good at languages. But I think this dredging it up happens with other things like my math skills like Calculus.. I haven't really used any Calculus in the past 20 years. But since I have a college degree in Math, I used to know it quite well. I've been reluctant to tutor someone in the subject since I can't seem to remember many details, yet I'm sure if I tried it would come back to me quickly. It's been that way for me a bit with computer coding. It seems I've forgotten something yet if I really sit down with a book or material it comes back fast. Seems I still remember how to type in vi without really thinking about it and I didn't touch it for over 15 years. (A tty unix line editor that requires knowing/memorizing odd key sequences.) But these were all things I learned as adults.

On the other hand the facts my son inhaled at 3 & 4 he really does seem to have lost. On the other hand I'm sure some of the knowledge he has was built on things he learned at that time.

I find this stuff fascinating. I myself have an unusual memory and have a lot of very early memories. I remember little bits and pieces from my first year of life: the color of the wall at the foot of the stairs and my mobile hanging over my crib (even that Tigger was ripped in half). I recently drew the layout of the home we lived in when I was a young toddler to prove to my mother that I did remember it. I constantly remind people of things that we did or random family memories that they have either totally or mostly forgotten. I get very frustrated when no one else remembers something that is so vivid to me!

My memory is very spatial I guess you might say, I always know where everyone was and the layout of the place we were in as well as the orientation of everything. If I am recalling a phone conversation I will know that I was driving when the conversation occurred and I will remember all sorts of things about the drive that I probably otherwise would have forgotten if I hadn't saved them with my memories of the phone conversation. I'll be able to say that when I said such and such I was at the red light by the Target for instance, info I don't think most people retain.

As an adult I forget almost nothing life memory wise. I have a great memory for facts as well (I'm that person who always chimes in on any subject because I not only have a good memory, I also spend hours a week on the internet learning about just about everything), but I might forget a number or date quite easily on a wiki I just read for example.

I also am able to find pretty much any line from a book if someone picks it out and reads it to me. I will know about where it is on the page, whether it was on the right or left page, and remember where it was at in the story and be able to locate it within seconds. OTOH, I can not quote passages any better than anyone else generally, so it's all about prompted recall there I guess.

DS6 has a very good memory, but he did forget all of the early stuff that he learned. He forgot all of the species of frogs that he memorized at 2 for instance. In fact, he was amazed the other day when I told him about all of the frogs he used to know. He never lost skills, like he didn't get worse at puzzles after taking a long break or lose reading progress when his interest waned, but he did lose information that he had learned. He learned the states at around age 2 and after a year still knew some of them and relearned them quickly, but I just went over the states with him this week and he only remembered about half.

I used to wonder what the point was of teaching him these things when he was little. I was pretty sure he would forget it all. But I told myself it wasn't going to harm him in any way and maybe it would enhance his brain development in some way. Plus he really wanted to learn! It is a little disappointing that after all those hours he spent pouring over that reptiles and amphibians book he doesn't remember even a single frog or toad. He doesn't even like frogs anymore. Oh well.

DS does remember new words so well that he always amazes me. Just hearing a word once he starts using it in conversation. He never seems to forget any word he has learned. We never define words for him, he just picks up the meaning through context. He also turned out to be an excellent speller, he writes a word once and knows the spelling from that point on (unlike me, I am a terrible speller). He quickly memorizes math facts after figuring them out. He was wondering how many minutes were in a year the other day, calculated it all in his head, and now knows the number as a permanent fact in his brain. He memorized a bunch of molecules after building each once with my chemistry set and quickly memorized the periodic table. He often says things that surprise us, bringing up an old memory or randomly telling us something we had taught him years ago and thought for sure he must have forgotten. I think he is a little young still to say where he is memory wise. Plus he has severe ADHD, which makes focusing difficult and seems to interfere with his thoughts a bit. His working memory is amazing though when he is actually able to calm down and access it. I, OTOH, have no working memory to speak of!

His father can't remember much of anything from his childhood, or even earlier today. And he is supposed to be the "gifted" one. He forgets the content of entire conversations and that they even took place within a few days. It's honestly infuriating, especially since I remember everything so well. Plus he insists they never happened and it's all in my mind. Even when I have witnesses. Apparently he thinks we are having a mass hallucination. He claims that he only remembers important things to keep his brain uncluttered and that my brain is just inefficient! He is mathy like DS and has an amazing working memory (to me anyway, maybe it isn't all that amazing... I struggle to keep just about anything in my working memory for more than a moment. I often can been heard repeating something as I walk across the house so that when I get to my destination I will remember what it was I needed to do).

I love knowing so much stuff. I feel like it contributes to an overall understanding of the world and allows me to better analyze situations in general. I can honestly say that I wonder sometimes at all the time I spend learning. When I die all of that info accumulated will be gone anyway. But I can't seem to help myself. Put me in front of a PC and I will quickly end up finding something I want to learn about that leads to something else that leads to something else, etc. until it's hours past when I should have gone to bed and I've gotten nothing done. Pointless, I know, but I guess it's a better addiction than others!

That's what I was thinking about when I started this thread. No harm in the kids having spend the time pouring over these books. They enjoyed themselves, we didn't make them do it. Yet it's a bit sad all that information wasn't retained.