Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Incentives

A month ago, I mentioned about getting DD to practice. Incentives were mentioned. Since she emptied her piggy bank of the last $2 for princess things out of the vending machine, we offered $0.25 for every book she read (we had specific Scholastic BOB books). But then she found 2 quarters on the boardwalk and then another at swim camp and no books were read.

Then she mentioned today that she wanted a violin for her birthday. I said that she hasn't shown us that she is willing to do the practice as she wasn't reading like she said she would. She said she would read a book now. Took a level 2 book out of the box and just read it. Though whenever I try and get her read to me it was like she was struggling.

I hate the incentives but it is bizarre how she could just read this book but when I sit with her she says it is too hard and wants to do something else a lot. DH reads at least 2 non fiction books a week and I read regularly so she sees us reading. We have always read to her quite a bit and we will read about 5 of her books a day to her. Maybe she justs likes it when we read to her. Sometimes I find her "reading" one of her Barbie Learn to read books in bed in the morning. But sitting with me and getting her to read is hard.

Ren

Ren - we have gone through this too, with the reading. I posted awhile back on this very issue, but can't find it. I gave up on worrying about it too much. I have now come to the conclusion that DS4 is learning to read without my help through being read to and playing computer games. I always make him read chapter titles, though, and I always am surprised when he knows a word I didn't think he would. We continue to read to DS, and when he feels like it, DS reads a bit too. I'll sometimes say, "i'll read more, but you have to help by taking turns reading pages." Do you let your DD pick out her own books at the library? I've heard that helps for some kids (not mine - he still wants us to read to him).

As to incentives, I am guilty. I got some singapore math books because DS was upset that he couldn't do some of the math games on his educational software. He was interested at first, but now not so much. (I'm thinking the problem is that we haven't gotten to the "new" material yet, but i wanted to start at the beginning for a foundation.) Anyway, he's been begging for more indiana jones lego sets, and i told him if he did a little of his math each day i'd get him a set. I think I cave a little too easily (i like legos too)... Maybe quarters would work - that would be much cheaper!

I know this is difficult issue to decide what to do. Part of me doesn't like pushing her, but this violin business has been a while and we did investigate in January. They thought she had the ability but wanted to start the piano.

We want to see some discipline and are using the reading before we make a commitment to music lessons. This fall we are starting with group piano, not requiring daily practice.

Also, after she got the quarter and we put a sticker on that book, she was very pleased with herself. So we want to reinforce the practice as a really good thing. So the incentives seem to work as an accomplishment. Just reading the book does not.

Part of that is that I try always to applaud the practice and not the achievement, so I can read doesn't have kudos attached. And I have had a lot of support here for praising the effort, not the accomplishment. But at some point, they should have pride they can do the accomplishment.

Any comments on my last paragraph would be appreciated.

Ren

This is only my very limited experience talking, but it may speak to your situation:

DS3 loves books. Really loves them. And he also LOVES to be read to. I find that when it is a story he has heard or read before, he is a lot less likely to want to be the "reader", preferring to snuggle up and have me read to him. When using a familiar book, I get him to read by taking turns...I read one page, then he reads the next. We read as a team.

In fact, my mother is a literacy specialist and gave me some books designed for this very thing. They are called We Both Read books and they are designed with parts for parents to read and parts for the kids. Link is here:

We Both Read book series

If I really want him to read all by himself, I go to the library (just did this last night) and get some new books. He cannot resist new books. I tell him he can read his new books, but I won't be reading with him until he reads on his own. Works like a charm every time.

That's what we do in my house and both methods really work to get him reading on his own. But the "buttons" to push on each kid are so different that I don't know if these same things will work for your daughter. Just some suggestions.

Good luck!

Well, my initial thought is that SHE should have pride she can do the accomplishment. That isn't something that YOU give to her. You know?

Self-pride doesn't come from outside, it comes from doing something hard and succeeding. It comes from within. If you praise her for success, then she is not experiencing self-pride, she's experiencing YOUR pride in her. Two different things.

As long as you're praising her when she does things that are hard for her, she'll get that self-pride.

One thought: just be sure you're really praising effort--hard work! Too many parents these days (maybe not you) praise every little thing their kids do, no matter how easy or small. IMHO, that doesn't cut it because it waters down the praise. They know when we're BSing them!

So if it's easy for her, don't praise it. But if she tackles something that she really doesn't want to do or has trouble doing, heap on the very specific praise: "Wow! That was hard for you, but you stuck with it. Doesn't it feel good to do something that you thought you couldn't do? I'm proud of you for not giving up! Are you proud of yourself?" That sort of thing.

I often ask my kids if they're proud of themselves, and I stress that while it's nice if I'm proud of them--and I am--what really matters is how they feel about themselves. It seems to work pretty well.

FWIW...

Thanks for the link. We are serious library goers and last year we did many of the books like Henry and Mudge, which have step level reading stages. So she would choose many books. But she started choosing books that were too hard for her to read and just wanted us to read them to her.

Though the Step into Reading Barbie books I got at Costco are coveted.

Thanks Kriston. I understand what you are saying and I try and follow that line and I also tell her when she shows me something easy and wants praise, I might say that was easy for her. Like standing close and dunking a basketball, and asking her to practice where it is harder.

But like anything, it seems she has to choose when she pushes herself to work. I posted elsewhere where she has pushed herself and she pushed herself on the bicycle this summer, where she wouldn't on the tricycle in years past. Or swimming, she is fearless in the ocean or diving into the pool.

And she started reading at 2.5 and before 3 she pushes herself more. I think the novelty is over and it is just work with words she has to do phonetically and she lacks patience.

I think that it is. Sorry for thinking as I write. Her patience during the middle, not the introduction of new things, but the middle where it is just the drudge work is not so exciting. But then she will sit down and do some work, ask for it. Practicing her writing, doing some math, spelling, a puzzle etc. I just don't know when.

But thank you for what you wrote. It made me think more closely.

Ren

Didn't mean to infer that reading to her was a problem, just commenting on the suggestion that she choose books at the library she wanted to read and she would be more inclined to read them.

The library is a wonderful mecca of information and she uses it that way. Not necessarily as just a place to find storybooks.

Hence, my comment. We are certainly happy to read the books to her, but I am trying to get her excited about reading herself. Maybe it will self-evolve, and since she is still 3, I should take a take a few breaths.

I am glad to start the thread as I liked Kriston's comment as it made me think about when she is proud of something. Not something I have focused on as a goal. And I think that is something that will be the ultimate motivator.

Ren

We went through this with our older one when we tried to get him read something he didn't care about. Our fault, we didn't realize at that time. DS4 went through a long stage where he would read with my husband but would stop as soon as he saw me. Fortunately he no longer does it.

We too take turns in reading, either one page each, sometimes he just reads the first paragraph and we read the rest of the page. He reads simple chapter books these days and does pretty good job.

I would think if your daughter started reading at 2, then BOB books at almost 4 are probably too easy and boring for her. She may need challenge as well as more substance. I say get different books, leave them lying around for a few weeks and see if she picks them up.

We too are starting piano with DS4. He will take private lessons but we signed him up for 8 lessons only. After that we should get a better idea if he is ready or not. I am worried that he is interested in it only because his older brother is starting piano too.

DD actually liked the Henry and Mudge books. Not the first level very much, but level 2.

And the BOB books are a little light in story, they are great for where she is in terms of reading on her own. And there are different levels there.

The Step Into Reading seem to work as they have Disney princess stories and now these Barbie fairy and princess stories. But after a couple of times, she does get bored with the story.


Tangent on the music lessons: This is the Russian method and they wanted 2 lessons per week, if you do the private. After a year of piano, she can start violin. We decided against that and doing group piano with a pretty good pianst at Lucy Moses School. If after a few months, he thinks she is ready, we will move to the private. When they suggested it in January, she wasn't even 3.5, goes to Montessori 9-3:30 M-F, has ballet and gymnastics. We thought it was too much (and she would never give up her ballet and gymnastics). But she keeps asking.

Ren

You know, DD6 started violin at four only because sister got to take piano and she wanted to take lessons. She wanted flute or violin, I thought violin was a little more reasonable. I'm glad now, I took a chance, I thought she was too young to start at the time.


DD6 started violin like a tornado, she was so hyped up about it. We rented a used violin and said what the heck. Later on, when it got hard and repetitive, she wasn't liking it so much. She did ask to quit several times. I knew that she wanted to quit because it was hard, not because she didn't like it. Also, she had perfectionistic tendencies and if she couldn't do it perfectly, she didn't want to do it at all. That's probably the real reason I didn't let her quit, and I did feel like a really mean mommy some days.

Flash forward to last week. Violin teacher tells us she's ready to go up a size in violin. We tell her that she gets to trade in her ratty old rental for a NEW violin! And even better, it's not a loan, we are buying her a new violin and she gets to pick it out herself. She beamed. We told her she earned it because she never really gave up even when it got hard. She stuck it out and now she can actually play. We made it a point not to tell her she earned it because she was actually good at playing.
She has a lot of pride now, in herself, and treats her violin as if it were very rare and delicate(even thought it's new, it's still a cheap student version!)

There are some pretty good non-fiction readers with stunning photos of insects and animals but are in the early reader category. There are a handful that has the parent part on the left side and the child part on the right side so they are getting a good deal of factual information and reading instruction as well. Those books are called "We Both Read" books. My boys loved them. There is a good one on the rain forest.

My oldest didn't read much Henry and Mudge or Frog and Toad either...hhhm.

Ok, y'all need to quit putting Henry and Mudge and Frog and Toad down!!!! I personally really get a kick out of both of those series and I know lots of bright kids that like them too. You make it sound like you can't be intelligent and like those books. Different people just have different tastes in what they like to read.

'Neato - I like that violin story! Especially since DD4 is starting violin next month. I'm a bit nervous about starting her since we started DS7 on piano at right around 5 1/2. She is very, very excited though.

DS is just like that with piano. Loves it when it's easy, complains when it's hard, gets tired of the everyday grind. I really work hard to keep practices light and fun. While trying to instill that when it's lesson time, it's all business. DS had a BAD lesson yesterday.

Edited to say - we happily had a Frog and Toad and Henry and Mudge phase!

I also like Frog and Toad but I do understand how the repetition can make the characters sound neurotic. These easy readers often get a bad rap (or is it rep?)...
Suggestions: MTH if she is ready (Magic Tree House) or at least, for you to ready together.
A series my DD5 loved at 4 (as did DS6) is the Mercy Watson books by Kate DiCamillo. Very cute and colorful. I often give them as gifts. If she is into princesses, etc. she might like the Fancy Nancy books by Jane O'Connor. Recently, Fancy Nancy stories have become available as easy readers too. My DD5 also likes the Barbie and princess easy readers. One other easy reader series she enjoyed is Minnie & Moo by Cazet. Good luck!
Oh, she also liked the Amelia Bedelia series too...

Let us know how she likes violin. I think it's perfect for DD6 for a variety of reasons!!

DD8 read Henry and Mudge. Although she seems to have never been at that reading level! She went from me noticing she could read Dr. Suess, to Junie B. Jones!

They both read below ability level sometimes, I think it's fine. I also think it's fine when a kid doesn't want to.

DD8 still likes me to read with her, especially: I read to you, you read to me books. Not my favorite, but she seems to love it.

I'm with you EandCmom. DS would only read Frog and Toad last year at 6, and it was Geronimo Stilton that got him really reading this past spring at age 7.5. We're all for animal stories in our house.

Thanks Neato, your story gives me a hope that DS4 may do ok with piano. I could see the perfectionist story ahead of us too, not when it comes to DS4 (I wish the kid took anything seriously), but it may be an issue for his brother.

Well as parenting perfectionistic children go, I'm a pro by now, let me know it I can help in any way!

Also, DD6 is sneaky, anyone that knows her would think she doesn't take anything seriously either, but she is actually the worst right now with perfection issues.

I think I will be back really soon We are sort of ok right now but last year we got hit really bad when he started Montessori.

I think learning to play a musical instrument could help with it. I don't think it's something which will come easy to him and he may need to work on it. I hope he will get the message that one can improve with practice and time.

Violin actually made dd6 a little worse, but at least I could address it. It's been a great learning experience for both of us.

I'm very excited about violin because I took violin growing up. Now I'll have an excuse to squeak away! I think it's going to be really good for DD. I think she has similar perfectionist issues, like her brother. For him it really has forced us to methodically work on those issues. Piano has really been great for him.

I know what you mean about the Henry and Mudge, etc books! I felt like those books were the right level either. Maybe for a week. Even magic tree house books never felt like enough once DS started reading. And I have to say, those books are not my favorite!

Sadly, DS hates to have us read to him now. He reads whatever on his own much faster and doesn't have the patience. I think we may try and do some audio books homeschooling now.

I kind of expect things get worse eventually. He will probably be fine at the very beginning. I hope at the end it will help with his perfectionism and he will realize that if things don't come easily to him he may still be capable of doing them once he puts enough effort in.

That said I would appreciate any suggestions regarding perfectionism which worked for you. I found the book " Freeing Our Families from Perfectionism" really helpful. It has been a while since I read. It's probably a time to reread it again.

My three year old loves Henry and Mudge. They are really cute stories with original plots. They are written by Cynthia Rylant, who also wrote the hilarious Poppleton books, Mr. Putter and Tabby, and the Cobble Street Cousins series.

Her favorite right now is Magic School Bus...

OH we liked Frog and Toad and the Henry and Mudge but DS read the first one or two, his reading level jumped and he was on to other things whereas I know kids who read every single Henry and Mudge etc. My son only ever read the first few of those books like oh can't recall, the one about the boy detective ... he never devoured an entire series like most kids I know...he would just jump to the next level and move on.

We were just like that D&C. DS7 could never tolerate a whole series - usually 2-4 books from a series. The most of any one series he did was Geronimo Stilton, although I'm sure he didn't come close to finishing even that one.

DS actually loves graphic novels and long comics (adult-ish). At 7, I think it still appeals to the part of him that would like to read picture books. A lot of them he picks up actually have good portions of text and probably at least a 6th grade reading level. Right now he's reading vintage richie rich and re-reading a graphic novel series on the life of the Buddha (which is actually very adult).

I wish I could add to this conversation but right now my son is happily reading a Pokemon Handbook.

DS6 seemed to be stuck for the last few months, I know he's capable of reading higher levels but he's been perfectly happy to read the beginner chapter books. I started reading books to him that were just within his reach and had really interesting story lines. That seems to have whet his appetite for the more interesting stories. He's still not reading to his full ability, but he's much more interested in reading books that are a bit more complex than he had been. I don't want to take away his quick, fun books, but I would like them to be in addition to things that challenge him a bit.

I have a couple of theories on why this worked for him- 1. It helped him get used to the cadence of the longer, more complex books and 2. It helped him realize that the effort of reading the harder books was rewarded with a better story.

I think I have mentioned that DS taught himself to read on roadsigns and moved up to any sign he could find, but I never saw him read a book until he read The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe at 5. We never gave him any incentives or encouragement or found any way to challenge him; he just did it on his own. I doubt that any of the early readers would have captured his imagination as much as a good warning sign, "Mommy, what's the difference between warning danger and caution? "Mommy, why are only employees allowed back there? What are the doing?" "Why is the occupency set at 300?"

So we never owned any of the early readers. But I do have the whole Frog and Toad series in Japanese. They are perfect for my reading level and I love them!

I'm glad to be helpful, Ren. I do think that the "please me" vs. "please yourself" line is a hard one to walk as we give praise. I struggle with it often, and I certainly don't always do as great a job as I would like.

But I think like many things in parenting, if we're conscious of the goal we're working toward and keep that uppermost in our minds, that's half the battle. It at least helps keep me moving in the right direction, I think. That's about all our kids can ask of us, isn't it?

And BTW, I got a chuckle out of this:


Oh, such truth you speak there! There is only so much you can do. And, as you say, she is only 3, and kids that age often cycle through interests. Reading is no exception. She may just not be in the mood for it right now. That's okay.

As I often reminded myself when going through potty training issues, she's not going to go to college without picking reading back up again. (Though there were moments when I felt like the diapers might at least be going to preschool with them... ) It will happen. I think you're right that not worrying too much about it is probably wise. From what you've said about your daughter, the more you push, the more she'll push back, no?

I am a big believer in reading for enjoyment. DD9 has been an avid reader for years, but at 3, she enjoyed someone else reading for her more. The books she wanted to learn about were too complex and frustrating for her to read on her own. She wanted to read about snakes or fossils (not stories, but scientific books)and the beginner readers would have silly story lines, so a bad match for interest.Once her reading skills caught up with her brain, I didn't need to encourage her to read.

At 3, I think she probably needs read to more than she needs to read. I read very young, but still enjoyed being read to. I still fondly remember my 6th grade teacher reading "Johnny Tremain" to our class, that was 40+ years ago!
Ren, since you & your husband read a lot, why not set aside family reading time where everyone reads to themselves. Maybe share an interesting passage from your books/magazines and encourage your daughter to do the same. Keep it short for her, and everyone stay in the same room. At other times, you can read to her.

I hesitate to post....As a mother of 4 avid readers, who are much older than seemingly 99% of the board users... I do have some advice.
All four of my kids have tested gifted, and were/are still very advanced readers in high school. (The 3 that are hs age or older are placing out or finishing 2+ yrs of college before graduating hs). They have read beyond college level for years.

All four have issues with processing skills, etc....twice exceptional. Reading could have been difficult/unfun for a couple of them, easy, yet all four of them list as their favorite thing to do as reading many times over. Punishing them is to take away a book they have started. And their favorite store is the local Border's, Barnes and Noble, thrift store, and univ bookstores.
As an example, my 10th grade son I've written on other posts read every single fiction book in his school library last year, include classics like original English translation of The Count of Monte Cristo. He read many non-fiction books, too. He was reading piles of books a week, and the librarian commented how he never entered any of the reading reward programs. She rewarded him through ordering books early, so he'd have them when they were new, and ordering special interest books.
Never, ever have I used incentives for any of my kids for schoolwork or reading.
Why? Because it doesn't work long term.

Here's a couple research links I found. Other research that will contradict is ultimately given/funded by the makers of AR, Pizza Hut, In N Out, etc...you just have to dig to prove it.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/readingincentives.htm

http://www.pscholtes.com/pscholtes/articles/incentiveprogramsareineffective.cfm

It is basic psychology - based on Skinner. (extrinsic vs. intrinsic motivation).
But to explain why I have seen almost every single eager friend/parent quell their child's love for reading, I offer you this...
It is like veggies. If they know they have to be bribed because they are good for them, they won't eat them without the bribe...even if they feel like it tastes ok. Why eat something if you can hold out and get a treat for it or feel you "deserve" a treat for it from past experience?

My advice for avid readers, who love reading more than anything, that ultimately helps with writing, comprehension, and independent learning is to:
1) Read to them...always. Even if it's a short article when they are older. They love sitting and cuddling with a parent reading, and discussing it. As they get older, pass around the books to everyone and discuss...in the car, at dinner/breakfast, in the store, whenever. Include Dad. (He reads far more than me these days).
2) Have them listen to stories on CD/tape or at storytelling festivals. My kids always liked Jim Weiss, but they also liked Hank the Cowdog, and some of the other unpredictable ones. When they want to read above their level, (I had a kid who was trying to read DeLaires Greek Mythology and struggled with the names), see if there is a recorded version so they can follow along with their finger, if they choose.
3) Give them a dictionary, and teach them how to use it. My kids stick post-it notes in their books and look up words they don't know. This was taught by a teacher at school. Vocabulary = comprehension, especially if they connect the affixes. Comprehension helps them analyze deeper and make inferences, which makes reading more enjoyable.
4) Provide only books that are worthy of their time. Learn about books/authors and quirky publishers. Also, don't make them feel they have to finish every book.
5) Take them to the movie or musical of a book they have read or you have read together. We just did this with "Pride and Prejudice." It was amazing. We loved the music and thought the play really stuck to the book, making us love it even more. Also, author signings are great!
6) Teach them how to choose a book that is the right reading level. They will read more and progress quicker that way. Don't push them to a higher level. They will get there!
7) Discuss the differences between movie and book versions. What was your fav part in the book? the movie? Why? Why do you think they left that character out? What did you not like? etc. Share your opinions, too.
8) Treat books with respect. Show them how to use them, to wash their hands, to never, ever allow a book on the floor, to place it properly on the shelf/nightstand and keep food/drinks away.
9) Take them to the library/bookstore. Check out books with a holiday/birthday/season theme. Read the ones you buy every year as a family...especially Christmas. Making books as a meaningful tradition.
10) Every once in a while (not too often - have them read the whole thing) treat them to pick a magazine in the grocery store to read. Ours has a kids' section, but as their interests grew they would pick a scientific one, sports, etc. Teach them how to pick one out (look at the cover stories/thumb through photos), how to find the 'Contents' page, and be sure to look at graphics and captions. If it is overwhelming, guide them to choose from three that you know are reputable. Then if they start hounding you, buy them a subscription as a gift. Make sure it is in their name only. They will be excited getting them in the mail.
11)Limit or throw out the tv. Use the internet (United Streaming is great if you can get a subscription, as well as networks for news). Limit computers, games, etc. while they are young or until they have discovered books.

Thank you, Jayne. Good advice.

Great post, Jayne! As a former college English teacher, I salute you even harder than I would if I were only a mom!

...And as a mom, I'm saluting pretty doggone hard!

Though I admit, we don't have enough bookshelves for our books, so some do go on the floor. Lovingly stacked, though. Always lovingly stacked!

This is another good thread. Re: reading, DS6 recently went through a slack phase in fiction (he always reads non-fiction) and hid a book when I tried to give him assignments in it. So I backed off, and now we find him up in his room reading spontaneously. I think it's very difficult to find the right balance of nudging them a ways out of their comfort zone, and letting them self-direct.

Related, I'm working with DS on math now, more because I think he needs how to learn with another person, than because he needs to learn math (math is a favorite non-fiction reading topic). Again, it's very hard to find the line that divides pushing him just a little to help him realize what he can do, and hothousing him.

Re: rewards, I wrestle with this a lot, as I don't believe in them fundamentally, but once in a while they are such an easy short cut.

Jayne, well said, excellent advice.



Will do. I'll ask the same of you I haven't even read that book so I'm sure I can learn a lot from your experiences as well.

I don't know if it will work for your dc, but to push my ds into reading chapter books, I picked out a book I thought he'd like. I told him I'd read him a chapter every night. I read the chapter, left the book in his room, and by morning, he'd finished it. If I pick the right book it works.

I disagree. With a passion
A smart child is not going to waist his/her time on a book that is not interesting to them. I am all for allowing kids to read what they absolutely feel like reading at the given moment.
I trust that whatever my kids pick up will be worthy of their time. They need to read from variety of sources.


Agree on this one

Thank you Jayne. That was an excellent post.

There was a lot of great advice. She loves books, she is very inquisitive and that is the start I want for her. She reads and how she reads should be low priority.

DD is one of those that when she is ready, she accelerates quickly. But when she is not ready, she will not be pushed. Like today, her swimming instructor told me that she wanted to practice opening her eyes under water and asked her to hold different number of fingers up so she could count. That is DD, not just open your eyes under water but create some exercise to push the task. Last week, she wasn't ready.

Ren

WHen I've used rewards for reading, when DS needed something to get him past seeing so many words on the page, his reward was to go to the bookstore and pick out a book either for him to read or for us to read to him.

When we were in the doldrums finishing up his math curriculum for the year (I'm not confidant in the school's math curriculum), he got to pick something to celebrate finishing. We discussed the contribution each family member made to his goal of loving, learning, and finishing math (Dh earns money to buy the curriculum, I go over it w/ him, brother has to play quietly while DS does it) so he picks things for the whole family to enjoy such as dinner at a restaurant of his choosing, ice cream, remote controlled helicopter we all enjoy flying etc.

So far I've not seen any negative effects from this. I'm definitely in the intrinsic motivation is better than external motivation camp. The school encouraged me to try an external motivators for DS to get his homework done...it worked somewhat but external motivators have never worked all that well for him and I have trouble remembering to do it and following through.

I've had great meaning advice from the school that may have been brilliant for 99.9% of the kids they serve that was totally innapropriate for my children.

Ultimately the best judge of what will work with our kids has to be us.

They are all different and will respond differently.

Take the advice that applies at the time and chuck the rest.

I once got that advice, in regard to my own path, when I was 21, and it was the best advice ever neato,

Take what feels right and build your own path. Perhaps that is what DD is doing, but as control freak parent of a highly gifted little girl, how dare she?

Ren

Wren, I don't recall how old your DD is but if she is very young (3yrs old?) I've read that their reading can be ahead of their vision. The chapter books have smaller font and it may be fatiguing for her to read. Do you notice a difference w/ her willingness to read larger fonts? My 2nd son was reading at 2yrs old but I didn't push it, I figured he had plenty of time to learn to read. I did notice a difference w/ smaller fonts.

Hi D&C,

She is 3, turning 4 in 1.5 months. I notice her sight reading signs without a problem, so it may be, but I think it has more to do with rushing. She just wants to know the word fast. I think there is a part of her that is confused why she can sometimes sight read and sometimes cannot. I was told that it took until 6 or 7 that they understood that sometimes answers pop into their heads and sometimes they have to do the work. Although, with an IQ of 180+, they just keep popping into their heads.

So I do think it is part, she likes when she just knows and would like that all the time. Not happening like that...

Ren

LOL!!

A few months ago, DD6 started pulling kids books off the large print aisle! She brought SuperFudge over in BIG print and asked to bring it home and then she did read some of it.

I think there might be something to that small font theory at the young ages.

Absolutely, per DS's OT. She says that they are not developmentally ready for the small print, even though they are capable of reading and understanding what the fine print says.

There is. When our older one was 3 and started reading chapter books he also started complaining about his eyes hurting. It happened usually during reading but sometimes even without it. I took him to an ophthalmologist who said his eyes were ok and that he complained to get my attention. Yeah, right

It went away in a few months and he has no problems now but looking back I think it was all thanks to the smaller print in the chapter books.

I thought I'd revive this thread, since there was an interesting article in the New York Times on intrinsic vs. extrinsic rewards in education.

For the record, (if you don't remember), I'm not at all a supporter of extrinsic motivators. I figure if the curriculum isn't motivating them, change it so it will. With schools, it can be tricky, but most teacher's love help and ideas and materials to help them. And afterschooling works to make in schooling better sometimes.

As they get older, they have to learn that they are responsible for making learning more interesting themselves, by picking topics they are interested in for research papers/projects, looking for extra information online/library, and working with their teachers, even before/after school, or carry to a club project.

Here's the link to the article:
NYTimes Artlcle: Rewards for Students

Thanks for posting that and the links in your previous post.

I have two sons, DS 6 and DS 7, who are both Gifted, both stubborn, and both know their own minds. Their behavior at school was atrocious for about three months. A behavior therapist contracted by the school gave us an allowance program to try:

1. Saturdays we pay them their years in dollars (so $6 and $7 respectively).
2. We came up with a list of things they would have to pay for and how much (50 cents for playing video games, 50 cents for play dates, longer term incentives like a trip to Chuck E Cheese).
3. We came up with what things would cause them to lose money ($1 for violence, 50 cents for not listening to mom after three attempts, etc).
4. We discussed how they could earn extra money (school behavior sheets, extra chores, doing things that it's hard to get them to do).

This system has worked beautifully in the house. The kids are much more manageable now than they ever have been. While it seems like the money is an extrinsic motivator, the reward and loss system is completely in the child's hands. S/he can work harder to earn more if they screw up one day. They count their money. Sometimes, they don't care about my rewards because it's real money, so one bought himself a Bionicle.

At first I was hesitant about giving them money, but then I realized that as an adult, you don't really go to work out of the goodness of your heart (usually). You go and you get paid for doing a good job, listening to your bosses, and making sure all your projects run smooothly. So, I figure it's not that different.

I think so much depends on the child, the age, what you are trying to motivate them to do. I read somewhere that external motivators are ok for things that become matter of habit like potty training, rewarding for not sucking thumb...

I'm wondering if the same motivator can be great for one kid and detrimental for another, depending on personality.

Artana - I'll have to chew on the allowance program. Currently my boys get an allowance, they negotiated contracts w/ DH (how often to get paid, what to get paid for) and if they don't live up to their contract, they don't get paid. In your system, they get paid regardless of their behaviour but can earn extra money or lose money based on their behaviour.

Dazed,

Yes, they are subtly different. I've always been very leery
of the allowance stuff because of the way I was raised. My parents tended to think that school was a kid's work and as long as you did school and got your chores done, then they would pay for our outings (nothing extravagant, but if we wanted to see movies and such). So, I'm not really sure which would work better on children. I only tried this one because the behavior therapist assured me that it really works with children and I was desperate.