Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Sudden behaviour problem

Hi, I'm not sure if this is related to GT or something else completely, but am worried, so wondered if anyone might have thoughts.

My older boy (six next week) has suddenly started having awful tantrums at home during which he shouts names at us, kicks us, throws things. He called his father's mobile and left an awful message telling him to punch himself in the face etc. It's just horrible, and we all find it damaging - he's never been like this before - stubborn and argumentative yes, but a sweet boy. He gets really out of control, eyes glazed over, triggered by sometimes pretty minor exertions of parental authority. I should add that he's still lovely with his brother (4) - they're really nice together.

This has started since the second semester of school began a few weeks ago (southern hemisphere). He was fabulous at home over the two-week holidays, then this change. My boy who loved going to school got three late slips in the space of a week, and two days spending lunch-time in the office for bad behaviour (teasing other children and 'going for a walk' outside the school grounds).

He hasn't said he doesn't like school, and I don't think anything has changed there. He likes his teacher, he likes his friends, it's all play-based (not Gr 1 yet - grrr) so it's not as though he's sitting bored at a desk. I've wondered if it could have something to do with lack of kindred spirits at school? He has children he considers friends, but from where I stand there's not a great degree of commonality - he's the oldest in class and well and away the smartest. I think he was fairly lucky in kindy to spend three years in a good group that did include a couple of like-minded boys from tertiary educated families. Or perhaps the novelty has worn off school even though he still likes the playing? He did think he'd be in Gr 1 after the break - poor love got his holidays mixed up. But then I wondered if that would necessarily make any difference - just because children are older doesn't mean they would automatically connect. And maybe it has nothing to do with that anyway.

I've read so many sad stories about bright children being bored and unhappy in school, but they all seem to be aware of it, so am not sure if it's the case here.

Sorry, this is extremely rambling and fragmented - I'm not at my best tired and upset. Thanks for bearing with me.

Behavior problems can certainly be the result of frustrations at school. Especially if a child feels like no one understands (or cares) what's wrong, he can act out in wildly inappropriate ways.

I don't know that this is what's happening in your case. I think you need more evidence. Lots of things can cause angry outbursts. But GT anger and frustration is one possibility.

When my always-before pleasant child became nasty and angry at age 6, it was clearly tied to school. He told us as much and there really wasn't any question about it. But it is certainly possible for bad behavior to spill over into home life if a child is unhappy at school (or vice versa).

I think it's also worth remembering that different kids are differently self-aware about what's bothering them. My son is and always has been very self-aware, so it made sense that he knew precisely what was triggering his bad feelings. But certainly not all kids--even GT ones!--would be able to ID it. They might just know that they feel bad. Especially if your DS thinks he shouldn't be unhappy at school, he might not tell you that's what's bothering him.

I guess I'm saying that I think you need more information if you're going to figure this out. I don't think you know enough to tell whether his behavior is related to school or not.

Can you observe him at school? That might help.

You might also ask him to pay close attention to his feelings one day and pinpoint for you what is happening each time he feels angry or upset. If he's capable of doing that for you, it might draw you a pretty good picture of what's wrong. Would the teacher cooperate with you on this by letting him write a few words/draw a quick picture every time he gets upset so that you have some record of what his emotional day was like?

You might also try asking him what were the best and worst parts of his day. That might tell you as much as you need to know.

It's so hard! Best wishes to you!

Based on my experiences I agree with what Kriston said. If it's possible to get into the school to observe I think that would be the best place to start.

Also check for physical problems. My dd5 loses all control when her blood sugar is low. The smallest thing will trigger her anger and cause her to lash out. When this happens, if I can get her to calm down enough to eat something she will settle down and become a rational person again. I have the same problem so I understand. I try to ensure that dd has breakfast and then eats every 2 or 3 hours. If she goes 4 or 5 hours without eating we are sure to have problems.

I'm the same way. DH says it's like living with a tiger: keep her fed and she purrs, but woe unto you if you let her get hungry! She'll bite your head off.

I'd be offended if it weren't accurate...

I don't know if this is something that all boys go through where they challenge authority at age 6, or if it is related to being bored, under-challenged, or lack of friends at school... But I remember it all too well. Unfortunately, we had all of the above conditions, so it is hard to say. Even at age 8, my DS sometime has days where I see it reemerge.

It generally arises when he feels he is losing control on some aspect of his life. This could mean school issues, such as friends (bullying, teasing, feeling left out or alone) or having to sit through mind-numbing drills at school. It also seems to happen sometimes at home when he feels that he needs to be treated less like a baby and more like a "big kid" with more responsibility at home. Giving him more responsibilities at home actually worked wonders for us. It gave him a sense of accomplishment when he finished certain chores and started to earn extra things (allowance, computer time, etc.). I would make the analogy that he feels like he is trapped in some form of constrictive box, and he is lashing out to get free. (at least that was so in my son's case.) If that is his case too, then you can gently try to vary some things in his universe (the ones that you have control over), and see if things improve. We gave our son the "you're getting older, and if you want more options and choices, then you have to earn them" speech. He seemed to understand then that he had some measure of control over his actions and his world around him. And I agree with Master of None... Extra hugs and love seemed to remind him that even on his worst days, I would always love him. He needed that kind of consistency when he was trying to alter or reshape his own world.

In this same time period, DS also was accelerated a grade, so his school environment improved tremendously, and we found out that he had food issues (several food allergies). So we changed a lot of variables in a short amount of time. I don't know what combination of things worked, or if it was just an age and maturity thing, but it ultimately got better. There are still days when I tear my hair out, but they are fewer and fewer. (Sigh! Today happens to be one of those days!)

So I hear you, BKD. Hope some of this helps. Let us know how things go. I'll be rooting for you!

Thanks all so much for your comments. As is often the case, just knowing other people have had similar issues helps a lot (without wanting to seem as though rejoicing in other's misery!).

We're piling on the love (team hugs make us all feel better) though hasn't stopped repeats of behaviour yet. And we're certainly aware of the need to keep the food up - poor darling's a chip off the old maternal block.

Just tonight we've had the first quiet statement from him that being in Grade 1 would be better. I'm leaning towards a mis-match with friends as being one of the issues - he shared some playground upset stories tonight too, but then finished with "but what can I do about it? They're my friends." So yes, control too as a problem.

I'm not sure the teacher would be much help re spotting problems, so will try to increase my time in class - I prefer my own chances of noticing when he's behaving atypically. The problem for me in class is getting the opportunity to watch my boy - apparently it's customary to mob visiting parents & siblings - it's the only time in my life I've felt like a pop star and I don't think I'd be on for too much of it. Sweet and all, but I tend to want to run outside yelling "Personal Space!"

Oh how I hope we get through the worst of it quickly - even gin and chocolate can't do much at times like this. Those of you who've (mostly) passed through it give me hope, so thanks again.

Cheers
BKD

I think you might well be right about the mismatched friends. That does make it sound like he's swallowing his frustrations with them, which is then bound to come out somewhere.

Mom's gut feeling is usually right. Do what you can to confirm what you see with your son, of course, but moms usually know.

Hang in there!

I think it definitely has to do with school, at least from the information that you have given us.

The one thing that I can say about my son is that the beginning of the year is always great. New teachers, new classmates, new material, new expectations. He is always excited about school, wakes up early, and dashes out the door. That is in August for us, USA mid-western kids. By November, the grumbling begins. He is slow to get going in the morning. His enthusiasm for school begins to tank. In kindergarten and first grade (both miserable years), he would complain of being too sick to go to school. I think he just reaches a limit on how bored he can be. He always recovers a bit over December's Christmas break. Then January to May is really hard. Last year he was grade accelerated after the Christmas break and that helped until at least April, when I started to see the same issues creeping up again (although on a much, much smaller scale)

You might be experiencing the same thing. I know that you posted that your son had the WPPSI-III recently, but I've missed what the school is thinking about doing for your son. Are they open to providing him with either grade acceleration or a gifted program?

We had the WPPSI done when it became apparent that the A word would not be discussed without some serious pressure being applied by us. We'd been thinking of asking for a mid-year bump to Gr 1, but then decided not to as he seemed to be enjoying school - right thing/wrong thing - why doesn't life come with labels? I've asked the Principal about a multi-age 1/2 class for next year (with the idea of telescoping), and she was supportive about his being in that class, but non-committal about the acceleration. I need to follow up, but will give it at least a couple of weeks from my recent pestering. Theoretically the Dept of Ed has policies, but even the GT policy officer I spoke to wasn't very optimistic about schools actually doing anything.

I've been gently (I hope?) probing, but find that so hard to do without feeling as though I might be planting suggestions. I have this terrible vision of my boy in years to come lying on the therapist's bed (does that really happen?) revealing how he was perfectly happy until his neurotic mother sowed the seeds of discontent. And then there's other terrible vision of the scarred child forced to struggle on through a harsh school world by the mother who didn't care enough. A couple of people have assured me that he needs to learn how to cope with school difficulties and shouldn't be mollycoddled. Well yes, I can see the point, but shouldn't they be a little older before you send them out into the world to develop a stiff upper lip?

Hmm, I seem to be getting a little over-dramatic. We had another outbreak today, which doesn't help, and have just had our first request that he not have to go to school tomorrow. I do just sometimes have a teensy tendency to panic and overreact, so will work hard on calmly observing/supporting.

But clearly the labels would be the really useful thing.

OH BKD, I'm in the same situation. I can't question too much b/c I don't want to implant ideas that are not his own. Sometimes I'll happen upon a book with a character facing a similar problem and I can ask "Have you ever felt that way?" I recall one morning which prompted my search for a psych when DS was standing in the door way on the way to the bus stop blubbering, crying, stamping his feet saying "I just can't go to school today. I'm so sick of never learning anything and it's so boring all day long." He was really out of control. I kept him home. I just couldn't send him in that state. I think after that something broke in him, he went to school but had stomach aches every day. Now he's had stomachache this summer when he's had to get up early to go to track practice so I do think his stress-button lies in his stomach, as it does mine, but I"m not sure that having the stomachache a few times this summer negates having it EVERYday, never on a weekend, and never during school when there was a school trip to a science museum. He is also more emotional, prone to outbursts, can't handle simple things like his LEGO creation falling apart etc during school. His emotions are very near the surface during the school year.

Ah, I so identify with you here! Threading the needle between not taking enough care and being a helicopter mom is so hard!

If it helps, I'd recommend letting go of the worry about your son on the therapist's couch. You're doing your best and that's all you can do. From what I've read and experienced, if you're trying, if you're doing your best, then that alone is often enough to protect your child from a lot of the damage. Even if your tries don't work--even fail miserably!--at least you're in there swinging, and that's what kids need to see so they feel loved, understood and supported.

So mark that one off your guilt list, okay!?!

As for the age at which to send kids off to develop the stiff upper lip...I've posted about this before, so I won't go on and on, but I am usually a "suck it up and deal" sort of mom. I detest drama and I don't coddle my kids. Generally speaking, people who have given me "the look" have given it to me because I am not sympathetic enough to my kids, not because I'm babying them.

Then DS7 hit school trouble, and he had the same sorts of emotional drama as your child, and it was cropping up in a big way. As he is not a child usually prone to emotional outbursts, I realized pretty quickly that I had to rethink my position in that instance. It was clear to me that school wasn't good for him, and I am confident that I'm not a hovering, overprotective parent for taking him out of that situation. Just because I'm his teacher now doesn't mean that he's glued to my side. Heck, he's a lot more independent than his neighborhood friends whose moms won't let them out of their sight.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's definitely a middle ground between "suck it up and deal" and hovering. Trust your gut. If you think school is a problem, then it probably is. And you're not being overprotective if you do something about it.

Honest!

Oh, I don't think I'm ready for that yet (clutches list tightly to bosom). I'm quite attached to my list. Isn't nurturing it my sacred motherly duty?

I've emailed the Principal to ask about a meeting with the Guidance Officer and teacher to see if anyone has anything useful to add. And to reinforce that we'd like to be taken seriously.

Dazed, that's such a sad story and must be churning you up. Is there anything you can do about it? This level of distress really shouldn't be part of childhood - how does it keep happening? It's one of those nights - I'd like to hug sad children everywhere.

So today, after another episode yesterday evening and one this morning, we've been blessed with an upset tummy (DS4) and a rash of a rather personal nature (DS6 tomorrow). I've actually started to giggle, albeit slightly hysterically.

And of course sooner or later it will all get sorted out. I'll cross my fingers for sooner, and give my thanks again for all your support & advice.

Peaceful evening wishes.
BK