Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Bright three year old cannot count past four

I would feel foolish posting this anywhere else but many here have experience with 2e kids so I'm going to take that risk. I have a three year old who is obviously very bright but cannot count past four. It's so odd and incongruous with his other abilities that I can't help but think there is something going on. I will keep an eye on it but wanted to write and see if any of you have seen something like this before and what, if anything I should be looking for.

My son is almost 3.5. He has a gifted older brother (probably highly gifted but we don't have an accurate score because he didn't cooperate with parts of the WPPSI when he was four). Like his older brother, DS3 started to talk at seven months. He was speaking in sentences by the time he was 14-15 months old. He loves puns and makes up his own. His speech is so precise and his vocabulary so large that almost every day people comment on how "advanced" he is (even in the Bay Area, where there are lots of bright kids!) He is starting to read and spell on his own with no assistance from us. He is obsessed with puzzles and can quickly do 100 piece puzzles that are for kids twice his age. He does Lego sets for nine year olds (following the directions with little assistance). At the age of two he was able to run up to maps in public parks and find where we were and locate objects and then show us where they were in real life.

BUT. He cannot remember how to count past four. We don't go over it a lot or push it but it's so odd that we will count an object together and he always says, "1,2,3,4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 6, 7, 8, 9. . . " He can never remember that five comes after four, no matter how many times I tell him. Yesterday I was curious and we counted objects to ten and after a few repetitions, he got it but the following day he forgot it all over again. I don't think his memory is poor. He tells elaborate stories about past events and has parts of fairly complex books memorized. He just cannot seem to remember what comes after four.

The other fact that I find odd is that he has recently started to spontaneously do addition (adding up to five). He'll run around telling us the sums of various numbers and sometimes he says "3+2=5" or "4+1=5". This causes my older son to wonder aloud how DS3 can add up to five but cannot remember that five comes after four.

For context, my husband is a highly gifted mathematician and my older son seems to be, also. He was counting to twenty at fifteen months, multiplying and dividing in his head at three and doing factorials at the age of four (but is just starting to really read now in kindergarten). So I don't have a good way to gauge if this is normal for a three year old but it seems so off for this particular child that I wanted to check in for some perspective. Have you ever seen something like this before?

Maybe it is similar to my kids missing out 17 for quite a while? If was just like a mental block.

Definitely sounds odd, but not alarming. My PG son never had number stumbles like that, but his PG sister did. She didn't remember 12. She grew out of it. She's a language arts girl and doesn't enjoy math, so that might be why "12" wasn't a priority! If I were you, I would keep working with him (without him knowing) and put it in the memory book to chuckle about later!

I wouldn't worry about it too much at three. Maybe try playing some easy board games where you count spaces like Candy land.

My 2e dyslexic kiddo had/has similar problem where he will know/be able to remember something really complex but then completely space something like the months in the year. When he was three he did not like letters or numbers at all which is different that your son so perhaps you're just seeing a quirk.

From what you've described, she can count past four - she's just leaving out one number consistently. This happened with 2 out of 3 of my kids (not 4, but one number consistently left out), and has also happened with a lot of the other young children I've known. In each case it was just a phase. One of my 2 who did this is dyslexic, but looking at her overall development I don't think leaving out the number phase had anything to do with dyslexia, I think she just didn't feel it was important to include 18

If you're seeing other things that seem odd, then talk to your ped about it and perhaps pursue a further look. I do believe that listening to your gut feeling is extremely important (and I have two 2e kiddos, in both cases wish I'd had enough obvious clues to test when they were younger), but the leaving out one number is something that I've seen happen over and over again with very young typically developing children.

OTOH, I'm just a parent, not a professional, so take my advice with a huge grain of salt

Best wishes,

polarbear

Can you try to just give him five things? Ask him to count his fingers for example?

I wouldn't be worried about it yet. Middle kid didn't skip numbers, but at age 2-3 she always said eleventeen, no matter how many times we told her that was not a number. She had some other odd stuff going on too - she mixed up opposites, most notably hot and cold, until about age 6.

As I have mentioned at other times, we did not think this kid was advanced, and I declared her "not college material" when she was 4.

Middle kid is now a HS senior, awaiting college admissions decisions. Has two acceptances, both with merit, one is full tuition. She is NMSF (should be NMF soon) and she is taking Linear Algebra this year in HS. She figured out the eleventeen thing.

My child responded to animal stories well at that age - try making up a story about 2 monkeys on a tree and 3 more coming to play with them - then ask him how many monkeys are now playing on the tree. Vary this with a different animal or bird story for a few days. Make it very natural and ensure that he does not notice that there is any math involved here! If he gets it right every time, then, it is just a phase. Good luck.

PS: Animal story problems work very well for subtraction concepts as well.

I would find it odd as well (if this was my child). That being said my kids had (and still have) inconsistencies in development, with some things seeming very advanced and then simple things going over their heads. They are both 2e, for whatever it is worth.

The nice thing about number 5 is that you can see it easily in daily life, and talk about it a lot. Like 5 fingers, 5 toes, 5 points on a star, etc.

Just coming back to add i would read counting books. 1, 2, 3 peas was one of ds6's favourites.