Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Gifted on WJ-III and not on WISC-V?

DD in 3rd grade, tested into gifted program in kindergarten based on WJ-III and WRIT, scoring on both in the 99 or above 99 percentile. She spent three years in gifted programming, doing well. We moved to another state and she had to be retested. They gave her the WISC-V and say she's not gifted. She scored in 92 percentile. I don't have the breakdown of the WISC-V scores yet, but I do have the original test scores from Missouri. Is she gifted or not? I feel that she is. She taught herself the alphabet at 18 months old. She started reading at 3. She's super emotionally sensitive. She's very unlike my other child. If I want to contest the WISC-V scores, does anyone have any advice for me?

Welcome!

Did they give you any information about index or subtest scores? Or just an FSIQ? One of the differences between the WJIII, WRIT, and WISC-V is the extent of timed hands-on subtests. If your DD performs significantly different on timed/untimed tasks, that may be enough to affect the global score.

I would start by requesting full test results, including subtest and index scores (and preferably raw scores, too, if you can get them). (It sounds like they are in process.)

Keep in mind, though, that 5 yo scores are not as stable as 8 yo scores. Also, the WRIT and WJIII were both over 10 years old at the time they were administered, which means a certain amount of score inflation would have been expected, so a little bit of the decline in scores may be due to corrections going from obsolete norms to updated norms.

Here's all the info I have. Also, she was 6 years and 2 months when first tested in kindergarten.

WJ-III
Brief reading 137 / 99%ile
Letter-Word ID 137 / 99
Passage Comprehen. 127 / 96
Brief math 137 / 99
Calculation 130 / 98
Applied problems 145 / 99.9

WRIT
Verbal analogies 126 / 96
Vocabulary 146 / 99.8
Matrices 135 / 99
Diamonds 119 / 90

Verbal IQ 140 / 99.2
Visual IQ 133 / 99
General IQ 142 / 99.4

WISC-V (at 9 years 5 months)
Block Design 17
Vocabulary 14
Figure weights 14
Matrix reasoning 12
Similarities 11

GAI 124 / 95%ile

After these WISC-V results, I asked them to give her the whole test. They added this information:

Digit span 12
Coding 11

FSIQ 122

aeh, Can you tell me anything more based on that information? I will request the full test results. Thank you!

I saw her flourish for three years in the gifted program in her old school district, and I see her as so much more advanced than her younger sibling. I am having trouble understanding the scores and believing that she's not academically gifted.

I actually do have more information on the scores from age 6.

WRIT

Subtest Raw score / Standard score / %ile
Verbal analogies 18 / 126 / 96
Vocabulary 32 / 146 / 99.8
Matrices 30 / 135 / 99
Diamonds 24 / 119 / 90

Verbal sum 272 / IQ 140 / %ile 99.2
Visual sum 254 / IQ 133 / %ile 99
General IQ 526 / IQ 142 / %ile 99.4

WJ-III

Cluster/Test / Raw / W / GE / Easy to Diff / RPI / SS /(68%)/ PR
Brief reading / -- /461 / 2.2 to 1.9 / 2.6 / 100/90 / 137 / 99
Brief math / -- / 467 / 2.2 to 1.7 / 2.7 / 100/90 / 137 / 99
Letter-Word ID / 37 / 457 / 2.6 / 2.3 to 2.9 / 100/90 / 137 / 99
Calculation / 9 / 467 / 2.0 / 1.5 to 2.6 / 100/90 / 130 / 98
Passage comp. / 18 / 465 / 1.8 / 1.5 to 2.2 / 100/90 / 127 / 96
Applied probs. / 26 / 467 / 2.3 / 1.9 to 2.8 / 100/90 / 145 / 99.9

1. If those are all the subtests administered from the WISC-V, they did not give her the whole test. They gave her the subtests sufficient to obtain, first, a GAI, and then (after your request) an FSIQ. Based on her strongest WISC-V subtest score, it might have been interesting to see how she did on Visual Puzzles, which is the other half of the Visual Spatial Index. Block Design scored at the 99th %ile, pretty much exactly the same as the WRIT Visual IQ. Administering the remaining three subtests would not change the IQ or the GAI, but it might be informative all the same. Especially with regard to areas of giftedness that the school might be willing to recognize (e.g., Visual Spatial).

2. I am curious as to whether there are discrepancies in her academic performance anywhere, as her cognitive profile suggests that there might be. Based on what you've provided, it looks like her verbal comprehension (VCI) and fluid reasoning (FRI) fall in the high average range on this testing, working memory (WMI) and processing speed (PSI) are estimated to be average, and visual spatial (VSI) is estimated to be very superior (moderately gifted range). That is significant diversity across clusters. You describe her as thriving in a GT program during K,1,2. I wonder if she has been making appropriate gains in reading during this time (either because of insufficient exposure, or because of a hidden reading disability). I have a couple of reasons for wondering:

a. Her verbal profile on cognitive testing is the same shape as it was three years ago, but lower in magnitude. At age 6, she had exceptionally strong vocabulary, and verbal reasoning a little over a standard deviation lower. At age 9, her vocabulary is still strong (though substantially lower than it was), and her verbal reasoning is still a standard deviation lower. This suggests to me that her vocabulary development has not been keeping pace over the past three years with her development prior to entering school. It may be that this is because her early reading skills gave her additional exposure to vocabulary that other 6 yos did not have, which gave a boost to her Verbal IQ on the WRIT. In the years since, other children have learned to read, gaining access to vocabulary from text, and thus "catching up" a little bit in the norms. It may be that she has not been challenged sufficiently in reading and language development over the past three years, even in the GT program. Or, it may be that she has a hidden reading disability, which, despite her early reading ability, has caused her reading (and hence vocabulary) development to stall out. (Considering that, at age six, she was already several grade levels ahead in reading, this would not necessarily have been an obstacle to academic success up to this point.) This last possibility is not incompatible with early reading, as there is a subset of exceptionally early readers who read mainly by sight, not by phonetic decoding, which interferes with the acquisition of new reading vocabulary, especially if one does not have a phenomenal rote memory (and her working memory scores do not support such a memory), and with the development of decoding fluency. Both of which can affect reading comprehension. Which leads me to

b. Her achievement scores at age 6 were uniformly strong, largely in the moderately gifted range, with two exceptions: math reasoning (applied problems) was even stronger, and reading comprehension (passage comprehension) was a bit lower, just outside of the GT range. I am inclined to speculate that this may have been an early indication of vulnerabilities in reading. But you would know better how her reading actually is.

3. On a side note, keep in mind that siblings are usually within about 10 points of each other, and that giftedness can manifest in very different ways in different individuals. Don't discount your younger child's abilities; they may be equally strong, but displayed differently.

4. On another side note, remember that test scores capture only a very small part of an individual, on a single day in her life. Whether these are accurate or not, whether she technically qualifies for the GT program here, there, or elsewhere, does not change the bright little girl you know her to be. In or out of the GT program, I'm sure you will continue to advocate for her to be challenged in ways that will help her grow to her potential as a whole human being.

Thank you aeh. Your post is very helpful. I'm not sure about her reading abilities. I always thought she was a great reader, but she doesn't love to read like I think she should. She would much rather play Minecraft or make things out of paper. I will keep what you said in mind and try to figure out if it's just a lack of being sufficiently challenged or a hidden disability. What should I do if it's a disability? I hardly think her school would be willing to offer her any services in that area considering that she is one of the better readers in her class. If I get outside help for her, what kind of professional would I be looking for?

And thanks for your last side note. It can be easy to miss the forest for the trees. She's a great kid with so many talents in and out of the classroom.

My DS7 is the same way. His vocabulary is much more than kids his age and he is obsessed with alphabets and phonics since he was very young. However, he doesn't like to read a book. He would rather play Minecraft or draw than read a book. I think it's just something that doesn't interest him. He'd rather watch a video to learn a subject than reading about it. I don't think he has a disability with reading but I am no professional so I am not sure if this is something we should be alarmed...