Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy 10 year old son has no cares in the world

My son is 10 and in 5th grade. He hates school and does the bare minimum. There is a chance we could get him into a program in 6th grade that would be more advanced (right now he only gets pulled out for math and does 1 grade level ahead even though he's tested higher). He has dysgraphia and executive function disorder as well as speech delays that require him to be in speech therapy twice a week. He hates school. he does the bare minimum, barely gets his work turned in on time and is getting C's in all the other classes except for math where he's acing it. We have had this struggle with him for years now and even moved to a new location and to a new school to see if it would help. Socially he is getting a little bit better but still has some issues with kids his age. I'm being told in order for him to qualify for this new program he has to show a "love of learning" and by their definition it sounds like an aim to please. He loves learning, just not what exactly they are learning in class at the time. Do I push it or just let him do his thing?

Thank you

Cola

I guess the question is whether he would like the work in the new program more than he likes the work that he is doing now. If so, then I would push it. If he would hate the work there, too, then I think you have to consider what he would get out of it. Is it just the "work" that he dislikes, or everything about class (including the actual instruction)? Because even if he would hate the work in the advanced class, he may still benefit from being taught higher level concepts, and enjoy learning the higher level concepts. DD seems to hate doing work of any kind, but I would rather have her sit through instruction at the right level, rather than being taught concepts she already knows.

Also, if he is 2e you should figure out if he is not performing because of the disability, for instance not being able to plan/organize assignments. If that is the problem, rather than just not being interested, then you should push for accommodations/modifications and possibly interventions no matter what program he is in.

I will also add that for my DD11, being with her gifted peers has been a much bigger deal than getting access to higher-level work at school.

I'm not sure with his second Es what the outcome would be, but most of what I've learned here is that you should try support areas of strength (giftedness) and scaffold disabilities.

I think you have said he has a love of learning, just perhaps not at the level it is being taught (which you have said is below his level) or he may not like the subject matter (for instance, prefers math to creative writing which makes sense based on his second es). I think that you should try it, the worst thing that happens is he has to return to the other program right? But you would have to make sure he would still receive help for his second Es. I have heard several anecdotal stories about kids who were not challenged and were doing C work, but then skipped grades and then started to excel… but I don't know if those children had to navigate the challenges your child does.

I would also see if the program has experience with/supports twice exceptional students.

Is the advanced level program actually looking for high achievers? Gifted and high achieving are not necessarily the same thing. I'd try to find out more about the program - can he go and see it, even try it out, for a day? It could be just what he needs or it could simply be a program for kids who fit into a neat little box (MG, compliant, high achievers).

If you're not sure of this (reason for underperforming), I'd spend some time first thing really digging into why he's underperforming. He might dislike school because it's boring or not interesting, or he might find it boring and uninteresting because he's still struggling with un-remediated or un-accommodated challenges related to his dysgraphia etc. One thing that happened with my ds around 4th/5th grade was that, as we were able to finally get his dysgraphia accommodations in place and dysgraphia itself was no longer a brick wall preventing ds from showing his knowledge, we realized ds had an expressive language disability also - it just hadn't been apparent until we removed the first roadblock to communication.

Providing a classroom environment where disability accommodations are in place, providing remediation as needed, and placing your child in a classroom where the intellectual discussion and learning are at the appropriate level are all key - but it's really really important to be sure you've covered the first two before a student can perform successfully and also be happy in the appropriate intellectual-level classroom.

Re the other school program - you should be able to work on accommodations and remediation in either place (in theory - but check that out to be sure!). If there aren't any bars re accommodations/etc, then look at the school as you would for any child - what does it offer for your ds? Is it worth switching? Is it a new or established program? What do other parents say about it? Do you think your ds would be happy there? Are there reasons your ds wouldn't want to change schools? How long will he be at his current school before middle school if he doesn't switch schools? What opportunities does he have for acceleration/etc in middle school (we have more opportunities here than in elementary)?

If you're interested in switching, I'd ask the school to let him have a visiting day where he spends the day with the class he'd go into, then see what your ds has to say about it.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Exactly what I was thinking. If it's differentiation that is really just MOS, it could be a leap from the frying pan into the fire. (For you, I mean-- because then the stress increases on YOU to scaffold for a higher level of expectations.)

ps - the other thing I was wondering about - what is the criteria used to determine if a student has a "love of learning"?

And is it possible that if the school really is able to filter in only students with a true "love of learning", the overall classroom situation might be improved from the current situation? I don't know anything about your ds' classroom, but in our kids' first elementary school the teachers had to spend a lot of time just managing classroom behavior, and there were several kids in class each year who truly didn't care about being there or about staying on track with what they were supposed to be doing. Once we moved our kids to schools where the level of work required was higher, even though it wasn't the highest level work they could have handled, they were so much happier just because they were in a classroom where the other students were paying attention.

polarbear

If he had it his way he would be self taught lol. He was in the gifted self contained class at the old school which only worked one grade level ahead. We had him tested with a prestigious (and expensive) psychologist who confirmed his mathematical reasoning and reading level are in the late highschool age rather than just one grad level ahead so we know he's capable of more but there is no way to get him to that level in elementary. Next year he will be in Junior High and they have more "opportunities" to expand. They also have a program where he could start taking college courses as soon as 8th grade but one of their criteria is "ability to prove a love of learning". He is self taught on certain things regarding science, history and math. He can't write to save his life thanks to his Dysgraphia but in elementary school they don't really accommodate. We were hoping to just finish out this school year knowing it wouldn't benefit him much anyways and then see what Junior High and High School can do for him. This Prep Program is at a different school and they only take so many kids, but part of their "criteria" is "proof" of giftedness such as test scores and IQ and so on. He tests well, but hates homework so he barely gets by. I don't know if we should push him or not.

Here is the info I got from the Prep Academy:


The Kyrene Preparatory Program is a school within a school serving 6th through 8th grades. This program is designed to strategically group academically talented students in the four core academic areas of Math, Language Arts, Science and Social Studies. This program provides a positive, challenging educational experience commensurate with student ability. These motivated learners experience science through exploration and application, and participate in a rigorous language arts class where they create outstanding literary works, as well as advanced grammar and comprehension skills. They also approach social studies through increased rigor and analysis and our advanced math program incorporates the vital link between application and rigor.

And this is their Criteria:
Criteria will include:
•Ability to exhibit advanced math skills as evidenced by upcoming assessments, 4th grade AIMS results, gifted testing*, and the district summative tests.
•Ability to exhibit advanced reading skills as evidenced on the AIMS and district summatives
•Ability to exhibit advanced writing skills as evidenced on the writing sample included in the application
•Ability to exhibit a motivated love of learning through 5th grade report cards