Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Please advise me- 2 high school kids involved

So my daughter, a senior, and my son, a 10th grader, have moved to a new state last year (8/07). We have now learned that the college classes she has taken will not count for the high school credit for English and Math. She has just 9 more credits to finish up an AA.

In CA, where we used to live, PreCalc at the college, counted for PreCalc at the high school also, etc. The high school here won't recognize math and English credits from the college, despite 2 of the nearby universities granting her credit for all of them, fulfilling their requirements.

Also, my 10th grader is wanting to take Calc I at the college instead of AP Calc, because next year he will be taking Calc II and Calc III at the university. The university uses the same book for all three levels, and even students who have scored 5s on the AP BC Calc have said that he should take it there, or he'll just need to start at Calc I at the univ.

Problem again, he'll receive no high school credit for the Calc I.

He wants to also do this with Physics which he is told he must take AP Physics, not Physics at the private or state universities, if he wants high school credit.

Also, he placed out of Freshman college English with the CLEP, but they want him to take 3 more years of high school English or, again, he receives no high school credit for the CLEP or any college English classes he takes at his level which I think is about a junior level in college. (I will have him continue testing with CLEP to verify this).

Did I mention that I'm paying for all of the testing (CLEP, COMPASS, etc) and courses the school doesn't provide? They did mention a high school test for math they can try to place out of provided at another district, but no to English. Each test is about another $100.

Something is wrong here...please, please advise me...

sigh.....hugs....no advice but hopefully someone will. That really bites....to put it mildly.

Are your kids old enough to get GED's and just go ahead and enroll in college?

Would it work to fill out the paperwork to homeschool them officially, and then just send them to college? You'd have to look into the regulations for taking the GED as homeschoolers; these regs must exist (do any of you homeschoolers know)?

Also, if all else fails, write a detailed letter to the principal asking for written explicit answers to explicit questions. Make them work hard to justify the denial and they might give in to avoid the hassle.

For example:

1. Please tell us exactly why you will not give credit for courses approved not only by Jane's last school, but also by <name of local college/university>.

Jane's syllabus and assignments from <course name and number> are attached, as is her transcript showing that she passed the course. Please enumerate the problems with the course and how they do not fulfill the requirements of your high school so that we can help her bridge the gaps in her learning.

2. We have been told that the calculus course at the college is more rigorous than the AP course at the high school.

Do you have information showing that our information is incorrect? We are new to this area and are not aware of the weaknesses of local colleges. If indeed the calculus courses at the college are of substandard quality, please enumerate their deficiencies so that we will be able to avoid problematic courses in the future.

Etc. etc. Then write a nice syrupy closing paragraph thanking them for helping you.

This approach has helped us in the past with our younger kids.

Val

P.S. If you can find any evidence of precedent for allowing HS credit for college courses in your state/county/town, cite it in the letter. The more similar the courses, the better; calculus is always a good bet. Always phrase as a polite question: "We are aware of HS credit being granted for college courses in the following circumstances:.... Please explain how our situation differs from this one so that we may learn to avoid making mistakes.

Then you really nail your case down.


Val

What state?

Thank you for the responses thus far...

Dazed and Confused - I appreciate your support. It matters!
Cathy A - Both are considered part-time students at the state univ. and can change to full-time. My 10th grade son, wanting to take the Calc and Physics at the private school, was told at a meeting with the admissions person that he could start there in January. Neither would need the GED to attend.

My problem is that they both should be able to receive academic scholarships. In finishing her AA, my daughter will have 75% of her tuition paid for 2 years, and we hope she will qualify for other scholarships. My son is on a similar path, but, I think he too could get more than the one academic scholarship that pays for part of 2 years. Academic scholarships usually require that you graduate from a state high school. When homeschooling, many of the scholarships don't apply. I already have another in college who we help paying half of her tuition. I also have another in 8th grade. Scholarships matter to me. Money is tight.

Also, since we moved here last year, all of their new friends go to school with them. I hated moving them while in high school, but now they have adjusted and enjoy their friends and activities with them. I am feeling though that the school is giving me little choice on the matter. They are in school to learn.

Val - Thank you, thank you for the advice. I haven't approached the principal at all, which does seem like a logical next move. I need to make sure that everything is pleasant and in writing. I have been pleasant, but nothing in writing yet.

I know we don't have the syllabuses and assignments from CA, but I can do that for the university courses here and show them that Calc/Physics and college Eng do more than cover what is at the high school level. I'll see if I can get a copy of the college syllabuses, along with a professor's number to call. I've been told by the counselor, it has been this way for a while. Personally, I think it is to have the seats filled in the classroom which gives the school money.

OH GRandma - We live in UT now. I love it here, except for this mess.

Jayne,

Yes, I'm becoming more and more familiar with this phenomenon. It is bureaucratic, not serving the students, and extremely frustrating--my state is as horrible as yours for allowing advanced study or credits. There are a couple things I've come to realize: many colleges do not require high school diplomas! I think they would prefer non-diploma than GED, so be careful (don't go get that GED quite yet). Even 25 yrs ago (my husband did this) one could apply to colleges early if they had good recommendations and showed that they had "outgrown" their high school...in other words, cannot be challenged. Wes Beach (I think that's his name) from your old state, California, has written articles, maybe a book on writing your own transcript, for homeschoolers or for independent schoolers (kids who have taken courses here or there, university or high school, online, even self-taught, working experiences, volunteering, travel, etc.) I'm coming to realize that in backwards states, we really have 2 choices: either do our own thing and not worry about diploma, or let kid waste time, repeat some stuff they know, and have that "normal high school experience". Your son sounds Very Gifted. It may just be impossible for him to do the "normal" route, and you'll have to "homeschool" (meaning, continued university classes, and fill in others from other sources)--side note: you're very lucky that he is so self motivated and self directed and has advanced so far on his own to date. I think the hardest battle is the Calc at college vs. AP Calc--difficult for a district to rationalize letting him take a college course when they offer what they consider to be the equivalent. I've just discovered that my state has initiated eLearning through the state Education Department (districts have to authorize, but they are clearly eligible for High school credit...the key is getting district to authorize!) Among these eLearning courses are 19 AP courses. They're only $200/so it's way cheaper than teacher salaries and ultimately could phase out a lot of teachers, offer rural area students great variety of opportunities, but clearly teachers unions are unhappy.

Lastly, over half the states have a Virtual Charter School (free) which generally offer more flexibility. (My state is not one). Gaining in popularity are the international cyberschools like K12 or Stanford Online High School. It just depends how important the diploma is...some colleges DO require it, so he might want to think where he wants to go to school before he goes off-grid.

We're trying to figure this out ourselves, so I really shouldn't be giving advice--though I will say that all of the zillions of hours of meetings with school district admin, counselors, etc. last year were a WASTE OF TIME for me. And very depressing. Good luck.

Wow, I didn't know that, good to know.

If the big sticking point is financing a college education, then Clepping out of the first two years may be an option. It's been a long time since I used CLEP exams for college credit, but unless things have changed drastically, there's no reason why a self-disciplined and motivated student couldn't manage it. One caveat: make sure ahead of time that the college you're interested in will accept CLEP scores.

In my day, you had to be past high school age to take the CLEPs, but apparently that has changed.

Good luck. I suspect the school is going to be pig-headed.