Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Contradictory test results?

8th grader has the following (old) test results.

3rd grade Cogat: 116 composite, 7th stanine 84%-ile

4th grade WISC-IV: 102 FSIQ (VC=108, PR=102, WM=99, PS=88).
WIAT, avg results, except math=134 (math problem solving was >99.9%)

5th grade Cogat: no SES given on report, 9th stanine, 98th%-ile

I'm puzzling over them as we try to figure out the best high school environment for him. We had him evaluated in 4th grade because he was placed in a low math group that year, and had a history of struggling with reading/writing. To us and at least a few teachers he'd had prior to 4th grade, he was very gifted with math and chess. It was clear to us since he was a toddler. Anyway, diagnosis came back with mild-ADD and dysgraphia. IQ suggested he wasn't "bright" after all. Yet somehow he scored near the top of the charts on math problem solving on the WIAT achievement test.
Then came 5th grade, when his CoGats improved a lot(I thought they were supposed to be pretty stable, and also correlated with IQ?).

In middle school he's done well - in the A/A-/B+ range and is the top math track.

The reason I am revisiting these confusing test results is because we want to put him in a high school environment that will work for him. He would like to go to a specialized school for math, it draws many gifted kids. I don't want to sell him short but also don't want to put him in an environment that will be hard for him to keep up if he really has a very average IQ.

Not sure what to make of the testing results and how they might guide educational decisions at this point. Results seem contradictory. Any thoughts?

His cognitive results are certainly highly variable, with the WISC-IV results apparently lining up with his language-related achievement, and his 5th grade CogAT paralleling his math-related achievement. (I'm not so concerned with the grade 3 CogATs, which are within striking distance of the WISC-IV.) One question that comes to mind is whether any remediation for the ADHD and dysgraphia was instituted after the 4th grade eval. Dysgraphia would be unlikely to affect the majority of the WISC results, with the exception of 1/3 of the PRI, and 1/2 to all of the PSI. It obviously was felt to have an impact on the writing portions of the WIAT, or there would have been no diagnosis. ADHD not uncommonly depresses scores on all kinds of tests, cognitive assessments included, and sometimes in apparently inconsistent ways. If the ADHD was pulling the WISC-IV scores down, but was better managed in fifth grade, it is conceivable that his scores could have gone up on that CogAT, to something more closely approximating his "true" ability. It may also be that he was more engaged for the CogAT, and not so much for the WISC-IV. If he's always enjoyed math, that section of the WIAT-III may have perked him up enough to show off some of his paces. It's not always obvious how much inattention is affecting children with ADHD-primarily inattentive, since they're not as disruptive in classrooms.

In any case, I prefer to base placement decisions on actual performance, rather than purely on cognitive assessment (though of course one takes it into account). If he is successful with coursework at a certain level and pace now, that would be the best predictor of success with an analogous level and pace at the high school level, regardless of formal test scores.

TerraceOne, Sorry this is not the reponse about your concern. While reading your post and aeh's reponse, I started wondering about Math ability and WISCs or other IQ related tests. Can kids be advanced in Math without being gifted? If then, can his/her advancd math skills postively affect the scores of IQ or aptitude test such as WISC V, Kbit, Cogat, OLSAT, etc?

aeh - Thank you for the thoughtful reply. In addition to getting the diagnosis and accompanying accommodations in school, I also think that maturity played a part in the Cogat score improvements.

I think I have the same question as happymom1122. My son was doing difficult math problems as a two year old - he'd double numbers a sequence of numbers out loud up to the 1000's. Yet he has a 102 IQ (I am starting to question this number, but I also don't think it is 130/"gifted" level either). He has a math brain for sure. I also think he has a great memory because when he was younger he would memorize all of the statistics on the back of baseball cards. You could pick out any player out of dozens and he'd know their RBI, or their batting average or whatever stat you asked. It was uncanny. This might sound a little bit like autism, but he is in no (other) way on the spectrum. We also notice it when he is studying. He can learn facts for tests very easily. Surprisingly to us, none of the testing he had picked up a superior memory. Anyway, it does seem possible to be 99%+ or better at math (not just calculation, but quant reasoning/problem solving) and not be "gifted." I just wonder if it's possible to be that strong in quant reasoning and be 102 IQ. That seems improbable.

Terrace,

I suspect you and happymom are not alone in wondering about how well cognitive assessments pick up math-related ability, as the latest revision of the WISC (the -V) adds a key fluid reasoning subtest, which is a measure of quantitative reasoning (probably most akin to algebraic thinking). In the past, cognitive assessments have been uneven in assessing mathematical thinking. The SBV has a quantitative section, which sometimes picks it up, and the DAS (and DAS-II) has a subtest in the nonverbal reasoning (similar to WISC-V fluid reasoning) cluster which addresses some quantitative thinking. But the majority of test components, most likely in an attempt to avoid measuring instruction rather than native ability, assess little math, except in an incidental way. The WISC-IV had one measure that had more direct connection to math (Arithmetic), and it was confounded with working memory. (On the WISC-V, that subtest and the Figure Weights quantitative reasoning subtest I mentioned earlier comprise the Quantitative Reasoning Index.)

IOW, the assessment field appears to be working on improving the technical qualities of cognitive assessments with regard to mathematical thinking.

And on memory: the tests you've mentioned do not have measures of long-term memory, only of short-term/working memory, which, while closely associated with mathematical ability, does not necessarily have to be exceptional in parallel with excellent encoding to and retrieval from long-term memory.