Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Washrooms and wanderings and two squared

We live in Ontario.

Our school is being funky with us. They say that toileting help (reminders, phrased as commands), and awareness that our child may decide to leave the school if bored or lost are not things that belong in an IEP. They don't seem to have any alternative to offer, and say it's not their issue, they are supposed to teach him, not worry about this.

They are doing some of it, denying the need for some of it, they REALLY don't want to document it. They tried to give him extra time on tests, though. In grade 1. Which doesn't seem to me likely to help him not poop his pants. JusSayin. Glarg. They are also trying very hard to teach him not to give the square of 2 when asked what 2+2 is. Yeah. I didn't follow up too much on that particular comment... oy....

Any advice? I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on, but that's not really making any difference right now...


-Mich

As much as I can (and believe me, I'm not perfect), I try to respond to stuff like this with polite questions. "I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. How will giving him extra time on tests help him avoid having poop accidents?" Then shut up and look at them with an expectant smile, as if you expect them to have a good answer.

Look up "functional" in the search box at wrightslaw.com. Schools are required under IDEA to remediate not only academic skills, but also functional skills. This can include toileting, executive function, anything that is hindering the child's access to the regular education curriculum.

I am in NZ and had the same problem. There is no funding for help therefore no help is given. It all hinges on getting the right teacher. In year 2 he didn't and he regressed 18 months in toiletting.

I think we have an equivalent law. But we're having a really hard time getting them to understand that laws are, like, binding and stuff. I feel like we're heading for an actual legal challenge, which just seems like a big hairy mess.

Schools don't seem to think laws apply to them and/or are completely sure that their odd interpretation is the right one.

Micheala,

We were in a situation in elementary school where the school staff was fighting us on accommodations needed both for our 2e ds and for our dd who needed accommodations for a medical issue. The school staff would sometimes insist that they couldn't do something or that something wasn't their responsibility when we knew that legally it was their responsibility. What I did in those situations (as recommended by our advocate) was to restate exactly what they had said in a summary email that I sent following either the meeting or conversation where it was stated. I sent the email to everyone who had been present when it was stated, and said (very politely) that I was following up to be sure I understood and remembered correctly what had been said. This was a very effective strategy in holding the school accountable for dropping the resistance to doing what was legally correct, because they did not want anything in writing anywhere that looked like they were not following the law. Typically what would happen when I sent the email would be that the email would either be ignored (and the issue dropped), or I'd receive a reply that I had misunderstood what was said and the issue would be clarified correctly. I would suggest doing this for comments such as someone telling you it's not the school's responsibility to keep your child from wandering off school grounds.

If you can, I'd recommend not using the issue of boredom as the reason he wanders or reacts with behavior etc. Can you phrase the cause of the problem behavior as something else? It's just my gut impression that school officials don't see solving boredom as their issue, and I think that's something that you wouldn't have grounds for under the law. Keep the focus on his disability, which should not prevent him access to his public education - that's what's protected by the law.


If you're mentioning this as a general sigh of frustration over having a highly gifted child having to sit through work in class that's too easy, you have my empathy! I get it. If you're mentioning this in the literal sense - that you're frustrated the teacher is requiring him to give an answer to 2+2 and he's answering with the square of 2, then I'd consider that's an appropriate thing to teach - the square of 2 isn't the same thing as 2+2 - even though they happen to be the same number. *If* you're saying that the teacher thinks 4 isn't equal to 4... I'd throw up my hands lol!

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - the comments about the school not being responsible for your child wandering off really bother me. If a child *did* wander off and was harmed in some way, I suspect the school could be sued. I would imagine the district office would not want the school to think they didn't have a responsibility for keeping all the students at the school safe. Should you send an email questioning this statement, and get a response back that said the school isn't responsible... I'd ask the question at the district level.

I also think that sometimes schools are stretched to provide services to all the students who need them, and an environment arises in which school staff think that by telling parents things aren't "so" they can dissuade parents from advocating further. This happened to us at our elementary school - in a big way. I often suspected that if you were able to talk to the same teachers/staff outside of the bounds of the relationships that you have re an IEP, you'd find what the teachers/staff had to say (and truly believed) were very different than the front that's put up in preparing IEPs.

This also isn't true at all schools - I know from the online research and reading I've done over the years (including here) that there are a lot of schools that truly do care about providing services for the students who need them.

polarbear

He's actually decided to leave twice, that we know of. They are claiming it didn't happen, or that they don't remember it happening late last year, and they're blaming the after-school programme staff for the recent one despite the fact the programme staff found him/knew he was missing, and they... didn't.

I've decided to avoid the word "wandering" from now on. At the recent IEP meeting they said that he's not wandering around staring off into space at recess, he's playing, sometimes with other kids even. I said, no, I mean like that time he was looking for his after school programme and no-one knew where he was, or the time he walked himself home because he didn't recognize/notice his babysitter and didn't really care. And they kinda just looked at me blankly and said "But he's not wandering."

The definition of 'wandering' issue was bugging me last night, your comment about avoiding the word "Bored," and the general sense I've been having that they're reading for keywords rather than meaning... Yeah. I'm getting some ideas on how to proceed here.

The school is definitely complaining to us that our son does not 'deserve' resources others need more... yesterday she told me "you must feel so grateful you're not dealing with the kind of things other parents with autistic kids do." Which I found a bit... distasteful.

My gut is that they don't know HOW to do this and the principle is setting up roadblocks which makes it even harder. When the VP suggested a "safety plan," the principle shut it down, saying those are for kids who wander OFTEN. Uh... erm... uh...

Since the ONLY accommodations we are seeking are active confirmation of all staff hand-offs and washroom reminders... I feel like we're really just not taking that much away from others...

I'm trying not to feel it... but it *feels* like the principle simply dislikes us & shuts down every possibility.

And you're 100% correct. It's right to teach him to pay attention to context, and to choose the right form of an answer... It really is just a general expression of frustration.... What bugs me most is she clearly didn't clue in that 2 squared = 2+2. She didn't tell him to change the form of his answer, she told him he was wrong. And she told me he's a show-off and she's trying to correct that... by shutting him down when he's ahead. And she's told me 100 times how "average" he is, academically, and is trying REALLY hard to frame all accommodations as accommodations for low intelligence/learning disability. She admits he's "Smart," but she uses the word with a colour more like "Smart-ass," or "obnoxious," she uses it in the same sentence as saying he's academically average (but knows more math than she does).

Ok, now I'm just venting. I feel like I kinda need to vent, though... just... ignore those bits...

-Mich.

I'm not sure how Candian law equates with the US in terms of FAPE, IDEA, LRE, etc but I would say something along the lines of

"If he poops in his pants he will have to miss the remainder of that school day. If he wanders off he will miss the remainder of the school day. That is not providing FAPE. You're the ones under a federal mandate to educate him. How you choose to do so is up to you but if he cannot attend school regularly he will be entitled to homebound tutoring in order to get his education. This will be extremely expensive - especially given _______ spec Ed needs. It also would not be meeting the requirements of LRE. But if you think that is a better solution than the no-cost option of having the teachers remind him to use the toilet I guess that's up to you."

If the principal or IEP team won't listen go to the superintendent then to the chair of your Board of Ed or equivalent. When speaking to them I would also point out the liability they are assuming now that you have documented in writing that your son is a "flight risk" and the school has declined to implement any plan to keep him safe. I think you can be pretty certain it will be addressed promptly.

This strategy worked well for us. Very well in fact.

Good luck!