Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice on how to approach dd's teacher

Dd9 (FSIQ 149) is currently in 4th grade in a self-contained GT class. This year she has a teacher that has a decent amount of GT experience and education that is completely new to the school and district. This teacher is on her 22nd year of teaching and is extremely organized which is great because she is really making the most of class time.

I've been pretty satisfied about how the school year is going, I like dd's teacher and feel confident that dd is finally learning something at school. Dd is excited about school again and coming home everyday talking about all the things she's learning in reading, writing, science, etc. The past couple of years have been awful and a complete waste of time with a highly unorganized, incompetent teacher.

Recently I learned through dd and the teacher's emails that the class has been working on multiplication facts, and 2 digits times 2 digits, and 3 digits times 2 digits for the past couple of weeks. They will conclude this skill the end of this week and start on division/long division, factors, and remainders next week, which based on the multiplication, will take a couple of weeks too. Keep in mind we're nearly 3 months into the school year. Dd says most of the kids in the class don't seem to know their facts and this is new for them. About 3-5 of them (dd included) know them according to dd. The problem is dd learned this stuff years ago and is well beyond learning these skills. She's working at about an 8th grade level in math. I'm sure there are gaps, but she certainly doesn't need to be working on multiplication and division.

In the past the 4th grade class has always started with Connected Math and for some reason this year the teacher isn't doing it. Dd says they just practice the skills I mentioned on the board, on self-made worksheets, it doesn't sound like they are using any sort of math curriculum. I don't know if the teacher feels most of the class isn't ready for Connected Math (which isn't surprising considering the teacher for the past 2 years was incompetent). I was really hoping dd would start the CM curriculum this year because her weaknesses in math are story problems and written responses.

Dd isn't complaining about math like she has the past few years, but dd is the type of student who picks the easy path of doing things she already knows and shuts down and panics if she doesn't understand something immediately. So of course she's okay with what they are doing in math right now. I am not okay with it because it continues to be a waste of time and it is re-enforcing her to avoid challenging herself in math. She also told me last night that last year she learned that it's important that when you "fall asleep with your eyes open" in class to be sure your eyes are on the teacher or the board or they will realize you're not paying attention. I asked her if she does that this year and she said she only does it during math.

I have a meeting with the teacher this week to discuss how math is going for dd. I'm looking for advice on how to diplomatically address this issue so that the teacher doesn't immediately get defensive or take it as a personal attack... as I've experienced in the past with teachers. In my opinion this teacher has a very confident, strong personality and I suspect that could be a challenge for me.

My ideas were to bring in some examples of what dd is doing at home in math to prove she is far beyond what she is doing in school. Ideally I think the teacher needs to provide differentiation in the classroom, the strongest math students aren't comparable to the weakest in the class. The students who know these skills shouldn't be forced to sit through the others learning them. I certainly don't want to go in there and basically tell her how I think she should run her class.

I have a couple of ideas for solutions but I really just need to hear what has worked for others in the past and what others recommend on how to approach this.

FWIW in past grades when I've addressed math issues the results have been mixed. Sometimes I get nowhere and sometimes I get nicely packaged promises that are never fulfilled. I need an obvious solution that will fix this problem. I'm done being pacified and continuing to allow dd to sit through boring math classes not being challenged.

In the past, when I took in work samples for math, there was skepticism from the teachers. To them, it looked like I was a tiger mom locking my DS away after school and drilling tons of math and hence the advanced work samples. Because, in their experience, why would anyone ask the child to do more math when they the expert educators were taking care of it in school? In reality, DS was bored out of his mind with math and I bought some interesting math books and let him loose on them.
What worked for us was outside validation - finishing online math courses with accredited institutions with transcripts, enrolling DS in math contests like Math Kangaroo, Trimathlon etc., and taking above grade level Talent Search exams (SCAT, Explore etc.) - and using actual numbers from the score sheets as the basis of requests for acceleration, compacting and differentiation. In our case, seeing the numbers from all the outside evaluation as well as the results of standardized testing helped change the opinions of administrators and "department heads". Good luck.

The teacher already knows that dd does math outside of school, primarily because the school has no homework so we do about 10-20 min a day. Would it make a difference if I gave dd problems to do while the teacher watched? Which may be important since dd does most of her calculations in her head and often times will have a single answer and show no work for something an adult would need to write out the steps for.

I will look into outside validation but that will take time and I'm really looking for a solution that can happen as quickly as possible. This school (past teachers/principal) is notorious at stalling and the sooner this is done the better it is for dd.

My suggestion is to reframe how you're thinking of this meeting just a bit - at this point in time, you haven't talked to this year's teacher about math yet (if I'm understanding your post correctly). So look at this meeting as an opportunity to ask question about this year's math curriculum, learn what the teacher is doing in class and what the plans are for the rest of the year. Then move the discussion to what you think your dd needs. If you start off by asking questions and showing interest, you are less likely to put the teacher on the defensive, but if you start off by stating your dd needs more (before you've really heard what is already in the works for this school year), that may set off a defensive reaction on the part of a teacher if he/she is inclined to react defensively. You also *might* be pleasantly surprised and find out that what's ahead will be what you're looking for.

Since you mention that you want your dd to work on word problems, and the class is going through rote math calculations at the moment, then what you need to show that your dd *doesn't* need to work on the same math calculations is proof of mastery and proof of ability to do them quickly. I've found the same thing Ashley has re what's needed to convince teachers - data that is outside of work a parent has given their children works effectively, whereas work shown from a parent can be construed as tiger-parenting and pushing. There are different places/ways to get "data" to show what your dd is capable of - both outside and from the school. I'd suggest that when you get to the point in the conversation that you want to request "more" for your dd, and the teacher may respond with "she needs to learn x first", you reply with she already knows x (if she does), and then ask that the school test her to show that she does have that knowledge/mastery. If the school doesn't want to test her, pull out any independent data you have to show mastery (could be completed work, could be outside testing, could be a previous year's testing from school, whatever). If you don't have anything the school sees as proof, let us know what you are looking for and we can give suggestions about specific testing etc.

I suspect this teacher is striving for her students to develop "fluency" in terms of speed and accuracy before moving on to conceptual math - our teachers like to see fluency before students move on to higher level math so that they aren't getting tripped up by spending time on figuring out facts and are instead focusing on the concepts. It will help to ask your questions first because then you'll understand the teachers motivation and can then address your suggestions for solutions based on that framework, rather than based on frustration.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Sorry to say the same thing, but what worked for us was "objective" data in the form of the school's own standardized tests as well as the SCAT (an above-level test), which the kids took outside of school. When I gave them the SCAT scores, I also printed out and gave them CTY's recommendations for services for kids scoring at various percentiles. If you think SCAT scores might help, taking the SCAT is relatively cheap and you get the scores almost immediately.

I am agreeing with Kombre and Ashley. My DS is a first grader. He took the assessment tests (KTEA-II and KBIT-2) offered by the University's enrichment program in order for him to qualify for admission, since he was a kindergartener with no standard tests offered at school. I brought the report with me when I went to talk to his principal asking if they could do something for him so he could be academically challenged at school. I brought it to show her but she asked to keep the report for her record. She said she'll be using this report and the MAP test results (first time the first graders will take in our school district) to see where he's at and will come up with an individual plan or group plan (if there are other kids like him in his grade). She seemed more convinced that my DS is more advanced academically after seeing the test results, instead of just hearing me saying it.

If you are interested in having your DD taking a test, you may check out the NUMATS test offered by Northwestern University Gifted Education (CTD). They have test centers throughout the US. I think they offer tests every few months and the fee is not expensive. My DS can't take it yet because he's only a first grader. I would if they do offer it to younger kids. Good luck!

I think that polarbear's advice is good. After you find out what is planned for the class, could you just say that you know that your child is far ahead in math and that instead of going through the curriculum, she is pretested on the lesson, then she is able to do some differentiated work.