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    #223518 10/09/15 07:25 PM
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    I don't want to offend anyone so if you are sensitive about religion you may want to close this post. I'm curious whether anyone has a child who is/was fascinated by religion, and if the religious views were contrary to what your "social network" believes, how did you handle this? DS8 has found a copy of the Bible and he is now reading the Old Testament as a fascinating historical document full of "great myths" similar to the myths of other ancient people, like the Greeks, Romans, or Egyptians. I never told him that the Bible was a myth, he came up with that on his own. The problem is, DS has no filter. He is very young and tends to babble on about his various fascinations. If anyone in our family (full of very conservative Christians) hears him talk about the Bible the way he talks about it, there will be an uproar. And who knows what he says about it at (public) school. He wanted to take it to read at school, but I put my foot down on that one and told him to please not discuss any of this (but that seems wrong). I'm also concerned that the Bible will confuse him, since it has to be way above his reading level, and I'm not equipped with the knowledge myself to try to interpret it for him (heck, it's above the reading level of most adults). Has anyone dealt with anything like this? I guess it's simpler if you yourself have clear beliefs and you can tell your child "You need to believe X, but not Y" but I can't do that. I'm also not an archaeologist/historian and have no idea which parts of the Bible are historically accurate and I doubt there is anything at his reading level that explains this. He carefully packed up the Bible in his suitcase a few hours ago and is probably reading it at boy scout camp right now. I am hoping he doesn't talk about it there.

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    You may find the book "Raising Freethinkers" of interest. It helps guide non-religious families through moral and ethical topics, questions about respect for extended-family beliefs, discussing death, and more.

    Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0814410960/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_b5hgwb4K86PHE

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    As I read your post, I hear three separate issues to address:

    1. Ensuring your DS understands the language and context of the bible, including the historicity of the writing and the subjects/events contained therein.

    2. Giving your DS the tools to evaluate the veracity and validity of information/beliefs.

    3. Building the social intelligence to respectfully discuss sensitive topics with others.

    On the first count, I can offer many good resources on biblical interpretation and theological tradition from a Catholic or a neutral Christian perspective. There is considerable divergence in opinion among the various Protestant denominations and Catholicism, and it pays to find trustworthy resources to inform the learning process. I assume from the tone of your post that your family is not particularly affiliated with one faith. What is your openness to your son exploring and, potentially, choosing a faith that is not your own?

    On item two, religion is a unique beast. He might really like Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica, which is essentially a series of philosophical arguments and logical refutations made to form the underpinning of essentially all Christian faith. Even if your family isn't Catholic, Aquinas does a masterful job in his treatment of the existence and nature of God. (As my name suggests, I am an ardent fan.

    On point three, I think the key is to cultivate an attitude that the vast majority of people are good people seeking the truth, and that different life circumstances, experiences, and abilities create situations where people can reasonably choose different beliefs. The fact that such a large share of the world subscribes to monotheistic faith is, itself, a remarkable confluence of belief! Encourage him to speak politely to others, and actively foster a perspective of being a student. If he sees exchanges with others as opportunities for personal growth, he will be more humble in his approach. Ask questions, find a good spiritual director to field his questions and model theological debate.

    I love that your son is finding this interest himself!


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    longcut--thank you, i will get a copy of that book, it looks good.

    aquinas, I am willing to read anything. I don't necessarily want to tell the kids there is no god, and I am open to letting them decide for themselves what they want to believe (as long as it's not something that I view as ridiculous, like some sort of cult).
    I was raised Lutheran but realized I can't buy into most of it anymore. Everyone around me takes the Bible very literally. I'm not necessarily atheist or agnostic, it's just more of a "no idea what to believe" state of mind, and I have no idea what to tell the kids. I was able to avoid this issue until DS became fascinated by the topic. I allowed him to watch a NOVA show (he loves documentaries) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
    So that's probably what got him latched onto this topic (along with the Percy Jackson books, probably, which I have not read).

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    Portia--I'm concerned about appropriateness, esp, in light of the fact that he is wanting to learn about religion in a community that has a very strong belief system that I don't share. I don't want to say they are "wrong" (for all I know, they're not, at least not 100 percent wrong). I'm actually confused as to how people can believe something that is not a scientific fact and be so sure that they are right, and dismiss any evidence to the contrary (for instance, people who insist that the earth was created in 6 days). I am worried about the fact that he will offend/disturb people (esp. people close to us who may freak out, thinking we're going to hell, and put us on prayer chains). But I also don't know how to answer any questions that come up. I can tell them what I "think is probably true" but no one has all the answers. An 8 year old is probably going to want something to believe, not a bunch of "I think this is probably the answer, but I could be wrong" responses. Is that really fair to them? I have to put my foot down in terms of certain things (like believing the earth was created literally in 6 days) but other than topics like that, which can not be verified or disputed with science, it's all a big unknown. In the same way that I don't want to tell him that the Bible is just a bunch of made up stories, I also don't want to tell him that there is no God, because I don't have the answers. I have respect for people who can have a "strong faith" (or the opposite--no faith at all) and teach their child to follow it, but I can't do that. So then what? Especially if you have a child who thinks about all of this much more than most adults think about it? Most people say they are a certain faith and they accept it, but understand very little about why they actually believe it. They accept it because they were indoctrinated by their parents and church when they were young. Or they don't accept it, but follow religious traditions/practices in order to fit into their community. I don't want my kids going down that path.
    Like I said, I don't want to offend anyone and probably 80 percent of the general population would be offended by this thread. I'm looking for other people who have the same sorts of concerns, esp. with a gifted child, who is fascinated with the topic, and parents who value teaching their child to think critically.

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    Blackcat,

    I don't have very many answers but I'm going to commiserate with you. Our DD is younger than your DS but our extended families are extremely religious and DH and I don't share their beliefs. If they knew what we really thought on the topic they'd be organizing prayer chains for us.

    Before we had children we struggled with what we were going to tell them about God/religion. We didn't feel right telling a small child that there was no God but we also didn't want to decree that the existence of God was unquestionable. We decided that we would tell the kids that God was a benevolent force that they could talk to if they felt scared and that the force would listen and that the act of talking would make them feel better. When DD asks us or says something regarding a religious belief to us, we respond by saying that is what some people believe. Sometimes when it's appropriate we ask her what she believes and we say great to what ever she answers. We've left the door open for her to develop her own beliefs or join a religion of her own choosing. That said, her questioning beliefs and having these type of discussions would not go over well at the Thanksgiving table. We've explained to her that there are some topics that we discuss at home freely but that other people may not feel comfortable with those topics. We tell her that everyone is entitled to their beliefs and we don't need to all agree. It's not always imperative that we let others know that we disagree with them either. So far this has kept us from having any explosive confrontations. Hopefully it continues to work.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Portia--I'm concerned about appropriateness, esp, in light of the fact that he is wanting to learn about religion in a community that has a very strong belief system that I don't share.

    I don't know your ds, so can't predict the best way to deal with it from his unique personality, but fwiw, we've found with our children it helps to talk about our beliefs and our differences at home, in depth, and then with an understanding that not everyone believes the same things, help them understand that it's important to be respectful of others' beliefs. I am sure I'm not explaining this well but in general, having an open dialogue at home has, I think, helped prevent any of my kids saying something disrespectful to others (and helped them not think of others with disrespect). This is my suggestion:

    Rather than focus on what the differences between your beliefs are, have you considered looking for commonalities? While you may not believe in the specific details of conservative Christianity, I've found that in considering different religions (and non-religions) that most human beings have core values centered on being good, honest, fair in how we treat others etc. Most of us are seeking to live a good life while we are here on earth, and many of us have different ideas about what happens when we die but none of us know for certain.

    If you want to get deeper into differences, you can talk about why different beliefs come about - often because people are seeking a truth or reassurance that there is something more than what we know of here on earth, sometimes because people are scared, sometimes because people are vulnerable to what other people preach etc. I don't know what the situation is specifically within your family, but you might approach talking to your ds about your own journey - how you were raised, what led you to the place you are now in your beliefs etc.

    Last thought - I've found that discussing different beliefs etc have actually been really interesting conversations with my children. Perhaps you and your ds could turn this around a corner a bit from him digging deep into reading about other religions to the two of you exploring a bit together, reading, talking, researching. I'm not suggesting you do that to change/morph any of your beliefs! Just suggesting that by discussing it with him and following him a bit as he digs deeper, it might help lead to good discussions where you can tackle the idea of how to deal with this within the community you are living in in a way that is respectful of others so you don't have to worry about what he will say to others. Hope that makes sense!

    Best wishes,

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    One of my kids became interested in religious ideas and the existence of a god in kindergarten, soon after his 6th birthday. He asked a lot of questions, which we answered neutrally. For example, he'd heard about a place called "heaven" one day and wanted to know about it. I remember telling him that some people believe [a], some people believe [b], while others believe [c], and that there was no definitive proof about anyone's ideas.

    By some point in first grade, he decided he was agnostic. He was excited about the idea, and wanted to discuss it with his friends. They didn't understand. He brought it up again when they were 8, and they understood enough at that point to get angry with him. I had a talk with him and told him he'd have to wait for several years to have that discussion. We went over this idea a few times until I was sure that he understood it. Part of what I told him was that other kids just weren't ready to understand what he was saying yet, and he had to respect that. I also explained to him that he shouldn't talk about his ideas in front of his younger siblings, as they were too young to understand at the time or hadn't asked the same questions yet. Again, when they asked questions, we answered. We just didn't want big brother to be in a position of making them feel like they had to think the way he did (being the oldest and all).

    I agree with you that taking the bible to school is a bad idea (especially at his age, but in general at a public or secular school). I understand his enthusiasm for new ideas. I remember how interested my son was in this area. At the same time, at that age, he almost certainly can't know that other people might get wound up or start making assumptions about him that he might not like (or be able to respond to). Certainly, my son didn't, and I would expect that lack of knowledge at that age. If you have a talk with him about this idea, it might help with his ability to filter.

    We also have strong religious belief in our family. One side is upset that we don't take the kids to church, but religion is personal for them and they would never dream of telling us we should follow their beliefs. But I wouldn't discuss lack of belief with them because it would be too upsetting for them. The other side is conservative Christian, but less wound up about lack of belief (at this point, anyway). I discuss the topic with them if it comes up, and it never gets ugly. It would have 15 years ago.

    To answer your question, my ideas are pretty clear. At the same time, I didn't force them onto my kids when they were little (neither did my DH). Two of them are teenagers now and are well old enough to form their own opinions. The youngest is 11 and began to crystallize her current opinions two years ago during a day in a museum (we were walking through a large gallery of Renaissance paintings that were mostly religiously oriented).

    Our big thing is to tell our kids that no one has a right to tell them what to believe, and that they have to decide for themselves.

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    Thanks for all the suggestions/commiseration. I appreciate it. If anyone has any resources for thinking critically about this topic (some book or video similar to the Nova show, but not so advanced that a kid wouldn't be able to understand), I'd appreciate it. I feel like there is almost no information out there for people even to make their own judgments. What IS out there is usually from the opposite side--religious groups disputing scientific findings.

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    I wonder if there is some Sartre for kids - I struggled with this most of my adult life and eventually found solace through the concept of an invented diety to cope with abandonment. However I may have completely misinterpreted his work 😉

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    I remember being DS's age and I was convinced that adults were just going to church to fool the kids (kind of like adults going through extraordinary measures to convince kids there is a Santa or Easter bunny). At the same time I had a mother who told me that unbelievers go to hell. Imagine the angst that this can cause in a little kid who can't just "believe". I just didn't talk about it at all and went along with everything, feeling like I was trying to force myself to believe a fairy tale. DD is highly gifted and debates with people like a lawyer, but doesn't seem to question the existence of God at all, (and I haven't contradicted her). It's fascinating how personality plays into this.

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    As a person with deeply-held views on matters of faith and transcendence, I have long appreciated sincere, respectful discussions with people whose views and beliefs differ from my own. Regardless of what one's perspective is, there is value in learning to hear and respect others, and seek intersection points. I feel strongly enough about my own beliefs to hope that others may come to share them, as I would imagine anyone with strong beliefs might feel, but I certainly don't believe that scare and attack tactics are the way to promote authentic life transformation.

    As natural as our faith is in our family life and the lives of our children, our balance has really been very similar to that of those of you on the other side of the faith spectrum: while allowing them to maintain their authentic selves, encouraging our children to be sensitive and respectful to others' beliefs.

    blackcat, I am sorry that you did not feel that you were free to express your own beliefs and doubts as a child. I am thankful that I had parents who were comfortable enough in the foundations of their own beliefs to welcome learning about and grappling with the diversity of values and beliefs around us. Good for you that you have taken your personal experience and used it to give your children the latitude and self-determination to begin the process of thinking through their own beliefs and values. Every mature adult ought to thoughtfully examine and reflect on his or her beliefs throughout life; your children will have a better start on this than most.

    And on a side note, neither my parents nor my partner and I have promoted belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny, which is, of course, why DC#2, then 4 years old, earnestly informed our horrified and equally little neighbor that "Santa is dead." (Meaning the historical Nicholas, Bishop of Ephesus, generally held to have been a major inspiration for the mythical Santa Claus.) I am hopeful that we may have progressed since then in our attempts to teach respect and sensitivity. wink


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    aeh, I totally understand where you are coming from and I completely understand "the other side" since that is what I grew up with, going to church every single week. I'm not even comfortable saying "the other side" because I can't even say that they're wrong, I just can't say they're right either.

    We went out to lunch with my dad and stepmom and DS asked if he could borrow the car keys to get something. So what did he come back with? You guessed it--the Bible. He wanted to keep reading it while we were waiting for our food. My stepmother became extremely excited that he was reading this, and started talking about the books of the Bible, and how they are out of order from what "really happened" in history and I braced myself, thinking DS was going to say the word "mythology" but he kept his mouth shut and showed her the interesting map on the back cover. Yay DS! So maybe he understands.



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    That's great! Apparently you have done better than you realized in teaching him. smile


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    Blackcat, if you're at all inclined, this may be the perfect opportunity for you and your DS to be students together. Given the tenor of your religious upbringing and the lack of support you received as a child for testing and evaluating ideas in the faith, you might find it enlightening to dig into the meat of the faiths you're exploring to make up for post opportunities in childhood. I formed my religious views in grad school as a 20-something on a quest to prove atheism, after more than a decade of dissipated agnosticism. My family was loosey-goosey Christian with a weak religious education, so I mostly learned nothing about religion until I sought it out as an adult. It was so much fun to finally have some decent answers to old questions, or to have new questions arise!!

    My favourite resources are Catholic because I'm Catholic. Posters from different backgrounds will, obviously, have other go-tos. I've listed a few below that I particularly relied on.

    The single best resource in my journey was Aquinas' Summa Theologica (free full text linked below). I'd recommend tackling one or two ideas at a time in the Prima Pars. With any endeavour, the simplest step must be taken before more complex ones. Tackle the issue of the existence of God with your son first before getting into the idea of Jesus or any biblical events. The treatment of God will be the first step in evaluating any religion. Take it slowly, question everything, and keep digging for credible resources if your questions aren't answered adequately. There should be no contradictions between science and religion.

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/

    Enjoy! Whether you agree with him or not, Aquinas will keep your thought process on track!

    If you want to hunt down other good resources, I found the Catechism was a good startin point. Everything is well cited, and the headings make for quick reference guides:

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM


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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    If anyone in our family (full of very conservative Christians) hears him talk about the Bible the way he talks about it, there will be an uproar. And who knows what he says about it at (public) school. He wanted to take it to read at school, but I put my foot down on that one and told him to please not discuss any of this (but that seems wrong). I'm also concerned that the Bible will confuse him, since it has to be way above his reading level, and I'm not equipped with the knowledge myself to try to interpret it for him (heck, it's above the reading level of most adults). Has anyone dealt with anything like this? I guess it's simpler if you yourself have clear beliefs and you can tell your child "You need to believe X, but not Y" but I can't do that. I'm also not an archaeologist/historian and have no idea which parts of the Bible are historically accurate and I doubt there is anything at his reading level that explains this. He carefully packed up the Bible in his suitcase a few hours ago and is probably reading it at boy scout camp right now. I am hoping he doesn't talk about it there.
    The old saying is that one should not discuss sex, religion, and politics in polite company. But I don't agree, especially regarding the last two. People can get upset when discussing religion or politics, because the stakes are so high. Is there life after death? Should the nation go to war or spend billions of dollars on XYZ? If you say that people should avoid discussing subjects where the stakes are high, that means they should discuss only trivial things, such as whether one sports team is likely to beat another. There should be room for both kinds of topics.

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    aquinas, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. I do think DS actually believes in God, but he views the biblical stories as ancient myths.

    Bostonian, I agree which is why I posted it on this forum (which I hope is ok, if not then admin can feel free to delete the thread), but with close family/friends, I think they would become too upset because it is "us". And I know there is no way they are ever going to change their minds or question what they already believe. My stepmother was telling me one day about how she has a friend whose husband died, and the friend questioned the existence of god and was really angry. Stepmom was all upset about it for days, forwarded the woman's emails everywhere (as in, "What do I do? This is so terrible! Please pray!", etc).
    DD appeared in my bedroom last night and asked how the entire human race could have appeared from two people. I asked her what she's talking about, Adam and Eve? (turned out she was reading a "Bible Story" book someone gave her, probably step-mom). I told her that it's in the Bible but it wasn't a story that even the author meant for people to take literally. It's questions like this that are driving me crazy. Is that even correct? Did the author of the book of Genesis write it/tell it as a "story" to illustrate a point? Or did the author really intend for people to take it as literal fact? I don't have the knowledge of ancient cultures/history to even have a definitive answer and feel like I can't answer questions like this.

    Last edited by blackcat; 10/12/15 09:06 AM. Reason: clarity
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    We are an atheist/agnostic household that does not attend religious services, but one side of the fmaily is very religious and my children have many friends from religious families. One thing I have found helpful is to compare religious beliefs to other beliefs my child holds very dear, such as environmentalism or being extremely kind to animals (DD verges on PETA material). She would not want to hear someone talking disrespectfully or with great skepticism about these core beliefs of hers, so she needs to speak respectfully regarding others' beliefs even if she does not share them. Within OUR household, she is free to question and discuss. It's not a perfect parallel, but has helped a little.

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    Quote
    We've left the door open for her to develop her own beliefs or join a religion of her own choosing. That said, her questioning beliefs and having these type of discussions would not go over well at the Thanksgiving table. We've explained to her that there are some topics that we discuss at home freely but that other people may not feel comfortable with those topics. We tell her that everyone is entitled to their beliefs and we don't need to all agree. It's not always imperative that we let others know that we disagree with them either.

    This is similar to us. I find that my children have been okay with uncertainty in this topic--it's similar to discussions we have re life on other planets, limits of the universe, etc. If more interest were shown, I do think I would get some nonfiction books on religion from the library.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    DD appeared in my bedroom last night and asked how the entire human race could have appeared from two people. I asked her what she's talking about, Adam and Eve? (turned out she was reading a "Bible Story" book someone gave her, probably step-mom). I told her that it's in the Bible but it wasn't a story that even the author meant for people to take literally. It's questions like this that are driving me crazy. Is that even correct? Did the author of the book of Genesis write it/tell it as a "story" to illustrate a point? Or did the author really intend for people to take it as literal fact? I don't have the knowledge of ancient cultures/history to even have a definitive answer and feel like I can't answer questions like this.
    When my eldest was very, very young--he asked me about The Double (Devil). I hemmed and hawed and told him that some people think the devil is literally a creature with hooves, horns, etc., while others think of the devil more symbolically, as a metaphor for all that is dark and evil in the world. He asked which camp I belong to, and I told him (honestly) that I lean more toward the figurative side of things--he said (emphatically): not me, I believe in The Double! smile

    That aside, one thing that might be interesting to your son is to understand that even within a particular tradition, there are people who believe in a very literal interpretation and those who believe in the stories as metaphors. One can be deeply religious/spiritual either way. I am not sure what the metaphor is re: Adam and Eve, but I suspect your son might be a bit less confused if he understood that even under one umbrella, there are myriad ways of understanding sacred texts. (This is true in all traditions, I believe, but am most familiar with Christianity.)

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    You could also have an interesting discussion about mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosome Adam...


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    Originally Posted by aeh
    You could also have an interesting discussion about mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosome Adam...
    Thank you for clearing up that metaphor confusion for me, aeh! This is a little more deconstructionist than my mind can usually travel...I love it. smile

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    Quote
    DD appeared in my bedroom last night and asked how the entire human race could have appeared from two people. I asked her what she's talking about, Adam and Eve? (turned out she was reading a "Bible Story" book someone gave her, probably step-mom). I told her that it's in the Bible but it wasn't a story that even the author meant for people to take literally. It's questions like this that are driving me crazy. Is that even correct? Did the author of the book of Genesis write it/tell it as a "story" to illustrate a point? Or did the author really intend for people to take it as literal fact? I don't have the knowledge of ancient cultures/history to even have a definitive answer and feel like I can't answer questions like this.

    Some people take it literally, which is pretty obviously explained -- they believe the author did mean it literally.

    Other people take it symbolically. I've heard that explained a couple ways. Either, it's not as though the people who wrote the bible were sitting there with a notepad and paper, court-reporter style, writing everything word for word -- "Sorry, Moses, could you repeat that? I cannot write down a nod" -- and thus, there are some things that might not be exact. I've also heard it explained that, for example, certain events might have been embellished by the writers to make a better story and thus a better lesson.

    Honestly, I'm not sure exactly who believes what and exactly how, but I do know there's no specific consensus -- you don't need to give him a definitive answer.
    Also, I would maybe focus on some things too about values, etc that your family believes in just so that he has something definitive to latch onto -- it might help so that he doesn't feel too "lost" while he's figuring everything out.

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    Now it looks like I'm going to have to delve into evolution. smile They asked me about that as well, whether we are descended from chimpanzees, and I said no, we are both descended from something else, and there is fossil evidence showing that we do not look anything like humans millions of years ago, but my own scientific understanding is pretty limited. These "Bible Story" books make out Adam and Eve to be like modern humans. How many kids even understand it when you say "Look, it's not a literal story, it's metaphorical." So then what is it trying to tell us if it's not literal? And which parts of the Bible are methaphorical and which parts are historical fact (as the ancient people knew it). Don't even kids with average IQs question any of this? What do the very conservative religious parents say to their kids? Are there any resources out there explaining how the VERY LIBERAL churches interpret the Bible? Maybe that is something I could give DS (and maybe now DD as well, since she's starting to ask questions). Then they can decide for themselves if it makes any sense.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Are there any resources out there explaining how the VERY LIBERAL churches interpret the Bible?
    You wish. :P

    To further complicate matters--it's not really so much a liberal v. conservative issue. Roman Catholicism, for instance, would not be considered "liberal" by most (I'd think), although there are both (politically) liberal and conservative Catholics. RC doesn't read the bible literally (with some exceptions--and some mystical beliefs that extend beyond literal/figurative).

    "Liberal" might include: Disciples of Christ, Episcopalian, (some) Methodist, (some) Presbyterian, Unitarian Universalist (not really Christian)...I'm sure many more, no expert.

    Do you think your DS is more interested in the bible itself, or the nature of religious belief?

    UU is a good place for an academic type of religious study. This would likely not go over well with your parents, though, so DS should keep it on the down-low if you go this route. smile


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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    [quote=blackcat]
    Do you think your DS is more interested in the bible itself, or the nature of religious belief?

    Not sure. When we were at the art musueum, with a lot of ancient art, he wanted to read the captions about all the different religions (like Buddhism), not just the Christian ones. He was really into the Percy Jackson books, which I think have to do with the greek gods. He talks about mythology, but at the same time talks about God as factual, like there is no question about God. So I'm not really sure what his line of thought is.

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    Another resource might be the Unitarian Universalists. The UU, from what I have seen from friends, embraces a freethinking experience within a church-like community. It's a mix of the theists, agnostics, atheists, etc. The children's programming (Sunday school) explores various beliefs in a personal search for meaning. It's member-run so it really depends on your community whether the vibe fits you, but it might offer a space for discussion among peers, and people of different ages and backgrounds.

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    blackcat, it sounds as though your family's mixture of belief/inquisitiveness is similar to ours.

    In our case, we treated this as a matter of VERY gentle 'coaching' and a sort of social life-skills learning opportunity, aside from the obvious drive that DD had to understand religious faith and different belief systems.

    She was much more intellectual than 'spiritual' about the entire thing-- it was quite clinical to her. She approached this as a historian/archaeologist, and not as a mystic, if that makes any sense at all.

    She wasn't searching for her own Truth, but for an understanding of the "what" of others' beliefs-- and the why of them, which was obviously much more challenging, but led to some very interesting discussions. All of it arose rather naturally out of her insatiable curiosity regarding the nature of global conflicts and geopolitical strife-- NO discussion of which can truly be complete without understanding the role of religion (and differences) in that history.

    Great Courses has some good comparative religions materials-- often local public libraries have these available for check-out.

    We made it VERY clear that in spite of being spiritually color-blind ourselves, we aren't ardent about that agnosticism, by any means, and that on some level we have some envy for those who do have such faith. However, NOT everyone has a "God-shaped hole" in themselves. I explained this to my child from a scientific/clinical sort of stance. Atheism/belief seems to be at least partly genetic. Having both believers and atheists in one's genetic family tree often means that it's a bit unpredictable. One's belief system can be fairly idiosyncratic or unconventional under those conditions.

    I explained that I couldn't tell her what her own spiritual life needed to be-- that nobody ever can tell that to another human being.

    I suppose that means that we did some indoctrination on a humanist side-- but it was mindful and transparent in motivation. We leveled with her, in other words.

    She did in fact make up her own mind at about 12 years old. Or rather, she had been pulling those threads together into her own tapestry since those conversations at 4-7yo, and finally found the thing that "matched" for her at about 12. I think that it has surprised her that we are entirely supportive of her desire to go to worship and take part in a faith community. It makes me happy that my daughter is comfortable enough that I take her beliefs seriously so that she talks to me sometimes about her spirituality. Not with an eye to conversion-- but as an act of sharing parts of herself.

    That's a pretty good place to get to. I don't know if how we treated her curiosity at 4-7yo made the difference, or what-- but that is the place that we were then, and this is where we are now.

    DD is unabashedly liberal and social justice is, in and of itself, an article of faith for her-- which means that we happen to be quite fortuitous that she has found a faith community that 'fits' her so well. My family believed in training (and pruning/scaffolding) for spiritual life-- we did not do that. We basically watered and met obvious needs, and let things grow as they would.


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    "Exigesis" is the keyword you'll want to include in your searches on different biblical interpretations of various topics, blackcat.


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    exegesis

    smile


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    Originally Posted by aeh
    exegesis

    smile

    Well, if you want the ones that include proper spelling and aren't written by someone with a mullet! Uh oh...! wink

    Good catch, aeh! smile


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    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Originally Posted by aeh
    exegesis

    smile

    Well, if you want the ones that include proper spelling and aren't written by someone with a mullet! Uh oh...! wink

    Good catch, aeh! smile

    Gee, I didn't know you had a mullet, aquinas!

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    Originally Posted by Val
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Originally Posted by aeh
    exegesis

    smile

    Well, if you want the ones that include proper spelling and aren't written by someone with a mullet! Uh oh...! wink

    Good catch, aeh! smile

    I didn't know you had a mullet, aquinas! wink

    An easy oversight-- I usually refer to it as a femullet in casual conversation, Val. laugh


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    I believe there is mention of "spiritually gifted" in International Handbook on Giftedness (2009) by Larisa Shavinina. Given though that many don't accept or agree on what is meant by gifted, nor by spiritual, I don't anticipate either discussion or agreement on this subject. But I think its valid.

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    We are an atheist family in the Deep South, so that works out about as well as you'd expect. My family (not from the South) is quite religious as well. Like aquinas, I went through that twentysomething phase of diving deep into religion and history, but I came out at the other end (I was decidedly less impressed by Thomas Aquinas, for instance).

    Yeah, it's definitely easier if you have clear beliefs. Over time my DD10 has learned to guard her beliefs in public, but she's very much interested in exploring this, so we send her along with her friend to church and summer retreats, she goes along, blends in, asks the occasional question, and then comes back to me for a different perspective. Since I'm pretty well versed, I can give her a multitude of different interpretations, but she tends to want to cut through all of that and get straight to mine.

    It was just this past weekend where I delivered a defense of the Mosaic food prohibitions in a society ignorant of germ theory.

    We did the whole Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy thing, and having had that experience in an atheist family has done a wonderful service for teaching DD the perspective of believers. This is one of the primary reasons why she does not say things that her religious friends might find offensive.

    As for how you might handle this sort of thing... have you considered exploring this together with your DS? Is it something you're actually interested in? If so, you could be reading adult-level literature, and sharing what you learn with him. If you're interested, I can recommend some resources via PM.

    Also, I think this is an excellent answer that more people should apply more often: "I think this is probably the answer, but I could be wrong."

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    Dude,
    Sure, you can send me resources via PM. I think it would be a good idea to get some sort of perspective myself before sharing ideas with DS, since he's so young. Maybe if he was older we could "figure it out together" but I don't think that will work so well with an 8 year old. As bright as he is I think he's probably too young to figure out what is BS and what might be valid once you dive into it deeply. We did watch another PBS thing, one on Noah's Ark (basically it stated that this "story" and other stories in the Old Testament actually come from Babylonian mythology). He seems to understand that totally, but then makes bizarre remarks about how reading the Bible will give him good luck.
    Thanks again, everyone who commented--I appreciate the fact that we can have discussions like this on this site without it turning ugly.

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