Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Creativity or Pathology?

So, I think I have posted a little bit about this before. My son has what he calls “creative shocks.” He has had them since he was about three (that I noticed). He is basically overcome with a “story” in his head - images and all the characters are talking. And you can see that my son is ‘somewhere else’ … when he was younger we would say “pause” to get him to sort of snap out of it and pay attention to us and he would essentially ‘pause’ the story/movie in his head… He paces around when he has them, he is muttering to himself often (that’s the characters having dialog), etc. Often, he dictates these stories but plenty of them go unrecorded. They have toned down a lot as he has gotten older. But, yesterday, he was saying that he wonders what “disorder “this is. He says that everyone says that creativity is a gift but, it seems to him, it is also a disorder because he feels like he cannot control these incidents and they can be problematic. He says that he doesn’t even realize the “creative shock” is happening until he is “paused” or it is over (hence he cannot stop it). And, so, without realizing it, he is up, pacing around, talking to himself with a story happening. He says he never remembers it coming about but always remembers the entire story that results from the episode. Obviously, this looks weird. He is seriously wondering if this is a disorder….or is it really just creativity. And, if it is creativity, he insists that creativity is a double edged sword and it is also a pathology to a certain extent.

When I looked into creativity and the creative process of different writers, etc. I found this to not be uncommon, i.e. that the artist feels “taken over” by their story - that it happens to them and they have little control… However, still, I am concerned considering what my son said yesterday. He is ten now and looking weird is not an option these days so he is a little frustrated. He did say he feels lucky that it doesn’t happen in school much anymore. He said it tends to happen when he is bored. It also tends to happen when he is very excited or happy about something.

My question to you all (since you yourselves have highly intelligent, quirky kids and you yourselves tend to be highly-educated), do you all think there is something seriously “wrong” here? Like a pathology? Is this ADHD? Is this experience common with ADHD kiddos and I just don’t know it and medicine stops it? Is it some sort of autism? Or is it really just creativity/imagination that is dialed a little higher than your normal creative person? More background info: as a small child, my son had many imaginary friends and imaginary adventurers, he also did “imaginary work” at “imaginary places.” As a child he did not need me or anyone else to play with him - he could and would entertain himself for hours with the stories and characters in head. He has always had a more than rich imagination.

Well, there is some data suggesting a connection between temporal lobe epilepsy and episodes of creative storms. Some of the artists of history are believed to have had such seizures.

Not saying this is the only avenue by which creative inspiration strikes, of course.

So, you think these could be epileptic seizures potentially? He did not have any seizure type things happening as a baby though...

I don't think it's possible to judge something like this on a chat forum with limited information. Have you taken your son to a neurologist? If he (and/or you) are concerned that he has a disorder, talking to a professional could be reassuring.

My ASD son is like this (although not self-aware enough to describe the "creative storm" your DS communicates).

For him, it does fall under Part B, Number 3 in the DSM-V:
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).

2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat food every day).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).

4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interests in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

A child needs two of these, plus several more symptoms in categories A and C to have an ASD diagnosis.

I wouldn't worry too much about temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE). Even though aeh is correct, that several brilliant artists are thought to have had this (e.g. Van Gogh, Dostoevsky), you would almost certainly see seizure types that would be far more obvious in TLE.

My vote is for quirky gifted, unless there are other concerns. He wouldn't be able to control this at school if it were autism and/or a seizure disorder. It sounds like he's learning to self-regulate the intensity as he matures.

Of course, you should consult a professional if you are truly concerned! Does your DS have high levels of anxiety? Some people have "intrusive thoughts" as a feature of anxiety disorders. These are not typically pleasant, creative experiences, though.

It sounds to me like these episodes are involuntary and therefore probably not normal. Like maybe he is hallucinating. Luckily he is aware that what he is experiencing is not "real". I would probably ask doctor about this, maybe try to get a referal to a neuropsychologist or psychiatrist. Esp. since it is now bothering him.

DD has ADHD and her EF ability is impaired enough that she does not come up with stories of any kind. But I can't say that is the case for all people with ADHD. However, it just doesn't sound like it's related. People with ADHD can be distracted by their own thoughts, or distracted by what is going on around them, but these bizarre sounding dialogues or stories don't sound typical of ADHD.

I found a balanced article in the NY Times about vision therapy.



Food for thought. There's a lot of good information in that article. Please be aware of predators and charlatans.

Well, I guess I was in the market more for reassurance (sorry) ... I am a bit reluctant to pursue it officially because I am not necessarily in the market for yet another disorder/diagnosis. My son's neurologist seems quite keen on trying adhd meds for whatever, even though he doesn't have an adhd dx, so I also thought that maybe if this is an adhd type thing, I could/should reconsider trying meds.

Also, my reluctance stems from my feeling that almost anything can be pathologized ... it's like that saying, 'when all you got is a hammer everything looks like a nail.' I just feel like if I went to his neurologist or a neuropsych or a psych with this (and expressed enough concern) they'd be all over it with various disorders - "delusions" "psychosis," etc. And I am thinking - do I really want/need to pathologize this? Is that really necessary? Or can it really just be a quirk of the gifted/creative? Such have been known to be pathologized, no? At one time, being left-handed was pathologized.

It does not seem like a hallucination to me because he fully knows he is imagining of his own making (it is his story that he working on), he remembers it (he does not lose consciousness or memory or anything like that) and can come out if it, no problem (with distraction or person getting his attention). For the same reasons, it does not *seem* to me to be a seizure (I am a only a lay person with this stuff, though)... It's the going into it, the trigger - that seems to elude him and the pacing around and talking quietly to himself. If he could zone out without "acting out," so to speak, (keep it more in his head) that would be better.

Irena I think I may have shared this with you a few years ago. DH is an artist/art professor. He doesn't have much time for his own work now but in the past (before DD was born) living with him could get quite interesting. He would get into what I referred to as "the zone". He would go into his studio for days at a time. He didn't sleep, he mindlessly ate if I brought him simple food but I don't think he even noticed he was chewing or swallowing. He emerged only occasionally to wash brushes or other tools. If I spoke to him during these times he wasn't even really talking to me he remained fixated on the piece(s) he was creating. Without question his best work came out of these periods.

DH doesn't have epilepsy, psychiatric disorders or any known pathology. He functions as "a regular guy" - he doesn't even appear eccentric enough to be taken for an art professor. I think he is likely a 2E adult who found a way to use his intellect despite unremediated LD's. (After DD's diagnoses came to light his parents told him they had been approached repeatedly by the spec Ed teacher about getting him help for his apparent dyslexia but they declined. Growing up with 2 brothers who were class valedictorians while he struggled made him feel "stupid" and so he turned to more creative means of expression.)

DD had imaginary friends when she was little and also had running dialogues. I would frequently listen to be sure I heard her doing both sides of a conversation rather than engaging in conversation with a voice in her head. I always breathed a sigh of relief when I assured myself she wasn't hearing voices. At 10 1/2 she still has a very vivid imagination but has also on occasion said to me "Mom you DO realize they're not real - right?"

I can't even guess what is going on with your DS but I do know you have worked tirelessly to address his 2E issues. He, and you, would probably feel better if you get this checked out. Did this come up during neuropsych evals? If so was there a recommendation? I'm guessing getting it checked by a neurologist would make him feel better about it.

It's not a delusion (he would not recognize it as problematic) and is unlikely to be a hallucination, IMO.

It's actually pretty difficult to get a seizure disorder dx--so that part wouldn't concern me, in terms of the neurologist.

It does sound like it's related to EF--in that he has trouble switching gears, once it's begun. Still, wouldn't worry about needing to medicate unless it is interfering with his functioning.

Can he make himself stop if he *has* to stop? In school, for instance, would he be able to respond to a teacher's asking him to sit down and be quiet?