Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional "Reading [silently] makes my voice tired"???

DS9 can read non-fiction for hours, without complaint or concern, but resists fiction. It started with those horrid reading logs and was made worse by some truly ghastly assigned books in grade 4. I have treated it as a mental block and looked for ways to re-ignite his interest, ranging from pre-reading to ensure I'm strewing books he'll genuinely enjoy, to dropping clues of the excitement to come in the next chapter to most recently (and most shamefully) paying him a quarter per chapter just to get one finished. This with a kid for whom no extrinsic motivation measures have ever worked. He very reluctantly read the book, one painful chapter a day, but never asked for his money (he was really just doing it to make me happy). Meanwhile I can't keep him in non-fiction and his bedroom floor is covered with multiple books in various stages of completion.

He has, though, always had a preference for being read to, videos/documentaries and audiobooks (we did The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy recently - highly recommend). His psychologist describes him as an auditory learner. He says he learns through both hearing and seeing.

A few days ago he read part of the first chapter of a new book I suggested and stopped. He told me he was enjoying it, but that he was tired and had to stop. I asked in what way he was tired and he said that reading made his voice tired. This was perplexing as he had been reading silently (not even moving his lips). I asked about it and he said that's how he reads, he says the words to himself and he can't read without saying it in his head, that's how he understands it. He refused to discuss it further, so I haven't determined if this just occurs with fiction.

He has dysgraphia and his WISC showed a low PS (VC, PR & WM are all high and his GAI was 99%ile). WJ was mostly even, 130 total & lags in writing fluency (106), story recall (100) & story recall-delayed (105). Reading fluency was 119 and passage comprehension 124. I don't even know which subtests or other tests (he had many) may be relevant. Testing is 3 years old, as well.

He regularly pulls out fiction books that are below his tested reading level and that he's already read many times (Dr Suess, Geronimo Stilton, Amulet). Interestingly, as I ponder what I've seen him reading in fiction over the last months, they are all picture books, graphic novels, comics or books with many illustrations. His eyes have been tested and I've tried some of the suggestions on the forum to see if convergence is an issue and it doesn't seem to be. DS says his eyes don't bother him, just his voice.

Does this sound like something in particular? I'm at a loss. Thanks and apologies for how long this became.

Story Recall is one of the oral expression subtests of the WJIII. There is no reading involved in it (the examinee listens to the story, and then re-tells it from immediate or delayed memory), which makes one wonder about expressive/receptive language challenges (yes, even with a really high VCI).

One of the differences between fiction and non-fiction is the narrative thread, which is much more important for fiction and history than for STEM-type non-fiction.

His reading fluency is also not as high as you might expect for a VCI in the 99th %ile. Plus, reading one sentence at a time is not as exerting as sustaining attention, reading rate, and comprehension through multiple paragraphs, pages, and chapters, so this may not be representative of his level of fluency for extended text. The general behavior of reading aloud in his head that he describes is usually more characteristic of readers who are not truly fluent. The amount of effort expended then becomes "worthwhile" only for high-interest reading.

My late reader also selects leisure reading (especially fiction) levels below what I know to be the instructional level, and also reports odd challenges when tired, such as not being able to articulate clearly when reading aloud ("I can only do one thing at a time."). And likewise prefers books with many illustrations.

Thanks, aeh. I've read some of PolarBear's posts about expressive language and wondered if that was an issue. He often asks me to explain 'what that means' after reciting bits from fiction books or shows. I'm generally surprised when it happens, because it usually isn't something I'd expect him not to understand. He is prone to wanting his interpretation validated, so it may be he understands but wants to be sure he's right. Or maybe he really doesn't get it. I've been weighing a new assessment. If I go that route, are there specific tests for expressive/receptive language I should ensure are administered? Or can I just have a test or tests done for that issue outside of a general assessment.

Once upon a time I worried about stealth dyslexia, but it didn't really seem to fit. With this new articulation from him about what goes on when he reads, is it something I should again consider?

For language, the usual comprehensive measure for school-age children is the CELF-5. I'd start from there, with a speech language pathologist, and see what he/she suggests in addition.

I would wonder a bit about stealth dyslexia, too. How fast is his silent reading (wpm)? Is his spelling consistent with his VCI?

I've gone back through test results, and he hasn't had the CELF-5, nor have we seen an SLP. I'll talk to our pediatrician about an SLP referral, thanks.

His last school testing showed DRA at grade 4, San Diego assessment as grade 9 instructional level (grade 7 independent) and the 6 minute fluency assessments had him at 200 wpm on level 6. I believe that's oral, though. Is there a specific test or assessment for silent reading wpm's? Are there any flags in the WISC or WJ subtests for stealth dyslexia?

I feel very much like we're missing a key piece of the puzzle and treating symptoms, not the cause. I have getting an OT referral on my list, as well, and am starting to wonder if we'll ever stop adding specialists to our speed dial!

Forgot to add that his spelling is generally excellent, as measured by spelling tests. I'm quite sure he memorizes words (his memory is astonishing) and spells from memory, rather than intuitively. Spelling was 127 on the WJ, but 118 on the WIAT done 2 years ago (the writing fluency, sentence composition and spelling subtests were given to confirm dysgraphia).

This sounds uncannily like me, down to the intrinsic motivation, preference for non fiction, auditory learning, and excellent spelling. Even as an adult.

Yes, very much this. For fiction, I have to read the words aloud in my head, and actually watch the picture that the words conjure up, and then I understand. I usually find the first chapter or two of a fiction book to be exhausting because the words aren't oriented in a scene yet... they just float about with nothing to view. Eventually some sort of character and situation emerges, and only then does the book start to make sense. I just thought (until recently, in fact) that this is the way everyone reads. They really are lovely, extremely vivid pictures... it's just tiring and a commitment to get through fiction. It always has been (and probably always will be).

He probably doesn't have to work as hard to conjure up the pictures in his mind if the pictures are already there. I also have a strong preference to re-read fiction I've already read rather than venture into new fiction. The initial climb is very unpleasant for me.

I have no idea if I'm dysgraphic, but I have always known that I was a slow reader. What you describe sounds so similar to me that I can't help but wonder if I am. My DS has some characteristics that have us on the lookout for dysgraphia as well. He doesn't seem to have the same problem I do with fiction, however.

CoastalMom after reading the above I thought of a few different idea's for things to try.

-- When listening to an audio book have him read along on the printed page. (If possible.. we all get carsick so in my family this doesn't work in the car.) My older daughter had reading LD's and this was a recommendation by the educational therapist that worked with her.

-- With a new book or series, try reading out loud together the first few chapters enough to get that picture of the book in his mind. Either you read it or trade off reading different pages or chapters. See if you can get him to finish the book silently on his own.

--Try having him watch the movie first. (HP, Holes, there is a lot of options to chose from.) I don't usually recommend this but it might help him with mentally setting the picture. Maybe challenge him by making it a game to find all the ways the book & movie are different.

Your son isn't the only kid his age who balks at chapter books. I can relate my son who taught himself to read at 3 was uninterested in chapter books (without pictures) until about 3rd grade. But he could and would read non fictions books like crazy, and fiction that still had pictures was fine. I became quite adept at finding books that would challenge & interest him that weren't long chapter books. When he was younger I just took this as being an asynchronous of gifted learner that while he could read words he wasn't ready for whole books. Once I finally had him tested recently it showed that he has a low working memory & processing speed.

On the other hand in K he loved books like Captain Underpants, The Cheese Books (Geronimo Stilton) and other books that had a lot of words but still had pictures. I don't think this is unusual. The genre of very short "early" chapter books without pictures is fairly recent and IMO not a necessary stage to go through in learning to read. You might check out graphic novels is a huge emerging market and there is a lot of variety there. My son only really took off reading fiction after inhaling the whole HP series long after having seen both the movies & listened to the book on tape.

Thanks, GeorgeC. The adult explanation is very helpful (and interesting). Getting DS to start a new book is the hardest part, which makes me think he's having a similar experience of building the set in his head.

I asked DS last night, before seeing your post, if it was the same for fiction and non-fiction and he wasn't sure. He did say that it sometimes takes a long time for his voice to get tired. I suggested we run an experiment tracking types of books by how long until his voice tires and he was receptive but told me 'I'm not dyslexic' (he has a buddy who is & understands his dysgraphia is part of a family that includes dyslexia and dyscalculia). Interesting reaction. I'm going to chart stage of book, as well, to test the initial construction idea - assuming he'll really participate in the experiment!

bluemagic, I am usually an absolutist about reading the book before seeing the movie, but GeorgeC's post has me thinking you're right about flipping the order. He has stalled at HP 5, after zipping through the first 4, with an initial slow start, and I was using the movie as a carrot (I'm really a slow learner about intrinsic motivation!).

I like the audiobook idea. We're going to get the next Hitchhiker book on audio and he doesn't tend to get carsick so I'll give him the book while it plays. Reading the first chapters is also a good one. I used to do that to draw him in, but stopped as his reading progressed. Interesting to think it might have been serving an entirely different purpose from catching his interest. I'll go back to it.

I'll admit to being a bit horrified when he got into Amulet ('how can it be a real book if it has pictures?', I asked my snobby self), so I haven't exactly encouraged them. But if graphic novels help, then graphic novels he shall have. The flexible thinking practice will be good for me!

This takes quite a degree of self-awareness (it took me thirty years to realize I did this). So I would be surprised if most kids could articulate this.

Such as when the narrative is much more about events and plot advancement and much less about descriptions, introduction of new characters, and thoughts?

I would likely say the same thing about myself (that I'm not dyslexic). But then again, I'm basing that statement on the fact that I don't have severe trouble with reading. However, I clearly don't find it as comfortable as some people do. I do know that people can be undiagnosed dyslexics and reach adulthood learning to read well enough. So who knows?

Did you say somewhere that your DS plays the piano? It would make a lot of sense that he would be natural in music if he is primarily an aural learner. This is yet another way I am like your son.