Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional What is this? Issues with written assignments.

DS12 had an assignment to do for his English class that was creative, fun, and ultimately very short. There was a very long set of instructions and it is being graded on including all of the components.

He "worked" on it for literal hours. I was checking in on him here and there--mostly he was just checked out, making little progress, until I finally insisted he allow me to help. I walked him through the directions and typed for him--we were finished in about 15 minutes.

He did not seem to understand the directions and his work prior to my help was far below ability level--looked like something a much younger child would produce. The directions *were* hard to read because it was all in a small and elaborate font, but that doesn't seem to account for the overall performance.

A big part of this, I think, was that I'd allowed him the laptop willy-nilly and he was probably multi-tasking and not engaged. But there seems to be more going on, generally, when he has to respond to writing assignments. They are often immature, brief, incomplete (he doesn't fulfill requirements). Once I sat down with him (against his will--he does not ask for or want help), it was fun and complete in a few minutes.

Meanwhile--he is writing a screenplay on his own and does not seem to have any writer's block there.

Does this sound like:
--Executive function (specifically task initiation, sustained attention)? There's no mystery around this issue, he certainly has deficits.
--Something more discrete, language oriented?
--Motor?

I'm still trying to figure out all of my "concerns" to put in letter requesting ed eval. When I received DS' records last week, I noticed that my concerns were summed up as: "Mother wants child tested because he is unhappy in school." No wonder I've been unsuccessful.

What should I ask for, specifically, in terms of evaluation? Any all help appreciated.

Every single thing you say here makes perfect sense. Thank you.

I'm still thinking over the WTHeck went wrong here, and having more developed thoughts about the assignment:

1--It is very abstract: he was to take him name, turn it into any part of speech he wished, and then follow a dictionary-entry format to "define" himself. He was to use seven definitions that essentially describe various components of his personality. Then come up with synonyms, antonyms, and other parts of speech.

(I think this is well above his ability in terms of self-awareness, abstraction, and imaginative, metaphorical language use).

2--There was not an example using a name, but just a sample dictionary entry format provided.

3--When I walked him through it, I was able to give feedback (no, that is not the kind of "definition" the teacher wants--that is just a synonym). He does not understand what the teacher wants, does not compute.

4--He was very resistant to exposing too much about himself. For instance, I suggested he say something like "very knowledgeable about sports" and he insisted he just say "knowledgeable."

So, in thinking it over, I think this assignment pretty much pushed on each and everyone of his pragmatic language deficits. Whew!

This is the sort of assignment that a teacher thinks will be a lot of fun (and would be, for my DD, for instance, who is introspective and imaginative). And it is also the sort of assignment that DS would naturally bomb, and it would look like refusal/defiance because, come on! How difficult is this? <---from the perspective of a teacher (or frankly, me) who finds this sort of thing entertaining and easy.

Ugh. I'm taking your point about Rule: all written assignments will be checked, assisted by me. Especially this type of thing.

Yes.

If you can, keep a copy of the instructions, draft, and result. This is primo evidence for your 504/IEP meeting...

It does get better.

My son in fourth grade (he has Aspergers and big problems with assignments like the one you described) had weekly melt downs about this kind of stuff and it didn't have to be a huge assignment it could be one question that was to be answered in one sentence. Last year in tenth grade we were down to two assignments total that gave him problems and he needed help. Hoping he has two or less again this year.

Thank you for the encouragement! I imagine by 10th grade they've begun to specialize a little more, maybe? DS writes well when it's linear/analytical. And his own creative writing is all military-themed and plot-based (linear).

Pragmatics (which I didn't even know was a thing until recently) really colors this sort of thing, doesn't it? Has your son had formal support in place to learn better social communication (I can't recall if you've shared), or has it been your job to understand and teach?

I do feel I've got a little better grasp on this stuff now and it might be helpful when I communicate with his teachers, but in all honesty, I've been reading/researching/thinking about it all summer and have barely scratched the surface. Complex stuff. I want his teachers to understand and frame his behaviors as a neurological difference, but that might be setting my sites a little high. I adore the kid and he drives me bananas sometimes.

On top of the issues you already identified with the assignment, it sounds like the instructions were in a wordy, narrative format. I suspect that he would have had a somewhat easier time if it were in a bullet-point list (or numbered list, like what you wrote above...).

That's an EF issue to a degree, but I'm also starting to notice a phenomenon that these instructions are really common in gifted programs for some reason. It's like the kind of people who run such programs think that way, and haven't yet learned how to communicate to the rest of the world who must parse information to make sense of it! Even driving directions have been sent as a wall of text.

Add the description of the process above as well, describing the time spend, and assistance needed.

Zoiks. The interpretation of your concerns are a wee bit off the mark. Sometimes a failure to communicate is on the listener, not the speaker, though. Best to put things in writing to avoid such translation errors.

Your written request should outline concerns about school performance and classroom behavior, and request an educational evaluation, including an evaluation of his pragmatic language skills. Generally I don't tell the school how to do their evaluation, but your school doesn't seem very capable in putting pieces together, so I might further elaborate asking that they evaluate how his pragmatic language skills affect his ability to function in the classroom, interact with teachers and peers, and interpret written and oral instructions.

Edit: Sent you a pm

I've noticed this also, particularly in Language Arts (somewhat ironic). I suspect that people who specialize in LA/English tend to be wordy (LOL) and also intuitive types. This assignment was really difficult to decipher, largely due to the font, but deciphering is also a life-skill, yes? If I'd designed it, I'd have given a concrete example followed by bullet points. Much easier, and not a lot of room for interpretation error. But I know how to do this because I also am confused by a lot of narrative, so have learned to be more concise with instructions.

The "draft" as it were has been deleted. But certainly, I can describe the process and what worked to resolve the issue, as well as the hours spent on a 30-minute (tops) project.

I didn't have the proper language last year, but am now armed and dangerous. :P I wouldn't put the blame entirely on the listener, in this case, but I'm pretty sure I mentioned other things besides general "unhappiness." In fact, DS would never describe himself as unhappy as school, even when all evidence points to the contrary. He happily attends with no resistance whatsoever. He says school is worth the trouble because of his peers.

This is golden, thank you. I may use these exact words--powerful and descriptive.

As an aside: in the record review by SPED process coordinator, it was also noted that teachers do not indicate any concerns about DS' academic abilities. He also scored "Advanced" in all MAP areas last year. On the one hand, this could work against the request for IEP; on the other, maybe it can be leverage since the consequence he's facing if he doesn't get it together is removal from the program. The rationale they cite is "if the student can't earn a C or better in each class, they have been inappropriately placed in a program of this academic rigor." I can see this working both ways. Maybe.

If he can't succeed in this program, we'll have the same problems along with some new ones--I'm not sure what grade level would be appropriate placement, since he is in HS math and science this year, and Communication Arts/Social Studies are compacted in this program--so he's ahead of seventh grade there, too. He would need at least one year acceleration in all subject areas. Kind of a mess.

Has my son received support...well not ESE/IEP support...he does have a 504 for extended time.

I just worked with him about translating questions into more acceptable questions for him to tolerate....

Like a paper he turned in blank....why is your middle school the best?

Well his middle school wasn't "the best". So we learned to translate prompts like that into what do you like best about your school/what are three good points about your school? And even use how idiotic that prompt is in the hook....

Our middle school may not be ranked as a top 10 middle school in U.S. News and world reports. Our middle school may be getting a failing grade by the state. Nevertheless, our middle school does many thing right and some things exceptionally right.

Really he is so literal that we have spent years cueing him to "interpret" what someone has just said into something he can handle. Mainly he has a hard time with exaggeration or generalizations.

Excellent example, there is so much insight/wisdom in this.

I have to confess--prior to this last year, when DS' issues really became obvious, I always thought he was being smart-alek with his extraordinarily literal responses to questions such as these. I see it very differently now.

I also have to confess--this reminds me of a typical job-interview question that really threw me for a loop a few years ago: Why are you the best candidate for this position?

On the one hand, my first thought was "I can't say that I am, since I don't know who the other candidates are, or what their experience/qualifications look like." I really felt stumped in the moment, but knew that wasn't the right answer. (I do know enough to filter this through social expectations, but it's not a quick or automatic process...my little apple fell close to the tree.)

DS needs a lot of help in this department. I'm glad you've made inroads with yours, that is encouraging.

To answer your initial question about EF issue vs. language issue, I guess it depends on whether he is like this with other assignments. Last year the teacher would write a starter sentence on the board as well as a concluding sentence, and the kids had to fill in the middle with some sort of story. DD could not do that at all, and became very anxious about it. She also did not want to do research papers, even if the teacher gave a list of specific questions she wanted answered. DD did not know how to organize all the information into paragraphs.

I put in a written request to the district detaling what my exact concerns are. The OT came back with a couple appropriate tests to test for motor deficits (which all came back OK), but otherwise all they wanted to do was an achievement test for writing, that did not even include extended writing ability. If you want extended writing ability tested, make sure you specify that as one of your concerns, otherwise they will try to give him the WJ-Ach where kids don't have to write more than 3-4 sentences at a time to get a good score. Also write that you want them to review his writing done independently in class.

Even though I thought I was very specific about my concerns, including asking for a meeting to discuss them (which they granted) they still came up with a completely inappropriate evaluation plan, claimed they are not responsible for any "neuropsych testing" (even though the type of testing I was asking for was listed in the State evaluation manuals), and they stonewalled and acted passive aggressive. Ultimately I had to make them pay for an IEE, and the evaluator ended up confirming most of the things I was concerned about which the school had disregarded, like poor fluency, EF deficits, poor writing, etc.

In order to tease out motor ability vs. EF, you need to have different kinds of tests done. For instance DD scored really well on the tests of visual motor integration, but had a horrible score on the Rey Complex Figure test, which also involved motor skills, but her really poor organizational ability showed up on that but not the others. Then we knew it was more of an EF issue than motor issue.