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    Joined: Jun 2012
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    How very Orwellian

    Next on the box "thought cops"

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    Originally Posted by Irena
    I now live in WASP world - where I have found it very striking that my in-laws and my neighbors never say anything directly... everything is passive-aggressive. Example - book club with my neighbors, one other woman there is also from inner-city, working-poor background, the rest all upper-middle class WASPS. Fellow inner-city woman announces that she "hated the book we read that month" about which we had gathered to discuss. This did not concern me at all. It is after all a book club. The others talked about this for weeks, maybe months after... they were absolutely shocked and appalled that 'she would say such strong direct words with no regard for the others in the club who liked it or the person who chose it!' They found it very offensive and there was much discussion for how she could have phrased her opinion in a more palatable manner. I was quite perplexed.

    They wouldn't like me too much, considering every other thing that comes out of my mouth is either sarcastic or exaggerated (including this statement since it's not really every other thing). Really, the thought of having to censor every little thing that I say, or feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time, would make me want to just stay at home. I wouldn't want to attend a book club unless I could make fun of the book if I feel like it! Of course, most people would gauge the reactions of others, for instance if everyone else loved the book, you wouldn't ramble on for 10 min. about how awful it was (unless someone asked), but it doesn't sound like that was the case with this woman. They sound like a bunch of Stepford wives. Or is that an Un-PC thing to say? Oops!

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    I would start my own book group. Only authentic people allowed.

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    Originally Posted by indigo
    2.
    Originally Posted by Irena
    When my DH and I were dating, we were in the grocery store and I was going through my cards trying to find this particular's store discount card and I said grumpily and exasperatedly "I hate that I need a card for every store I shop at - it's ridiculous..." and my husband was very taken aback... At first, I wasn't sure why and then he told me "hate" is an offensive word and certainly shouldn't be used near small children! Uh, really? In this context? Just odd to me. Then I noticed in our area once I had children... most children are not permitted to say "hate" I heard many reprimands - Example: child says, "I hate green beans!" Parent replies, "Child!!! we do NOT use that word!" Me "What word?" Parent, wispering" the "H" word - hate."
    Hopefully extreme emotions of anger and hostility are not cultured within a person for such everyday disappointments as grocery store check out lane inconvenience or side dish of vegetables, as alluded to in this post.

    smile

    The article makes reference to "common cognitive errors" and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), which may be useful for any individual to engage in meta-cognition or thinking about what one thinks, and why.

    smile

    * The words "extreme emotion, anger, hostility" sourced from online definition of hate.

    The other word that I've seen young children are told is a bad word is "stupid". And while I agree that you shouldn't call anyone stupid, that is impolite, rude and unnecessary. Teaching children not to use it as a epithet is a good idea. But there are legitimate and non-offensive uses of the word. Nothing wrong with saying.. "That was a stupid thing I just did and now I have to spend hours fixing it".

    I believe this is some adults/teachers not believing that young children can understand nuances. Preschool's are probably trying to keep children from throwing out "I hate you" and "You are stupid" comments by banning the use of the words.

    Last edited by bluemagic; 08/15/15 07:42 PM.
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    She goofed. I think we should just cut people a break. The world is so intense right now. Everybody is so stressed. I feel terrible for the woman who said the word hate and is now a pariah. Women should be supportive and forgiving.

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    Women should be supportive and forgiving.

    That statement itself is promoting an unhealthy stereotype - you should have put a 'trigger warning' at the top of your post. LOL

    Last edited by madeinuk; 08/16/15 06:14 AM.

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    Originally Posted by NGR
    She goofed.
    Agreed. smile

    I wonder if this woman, upon reflection, and after receiving feedback, would agree?

    Some may say that the issue of demanding broad social acceptance of frequent use of the emotionally extreme, angry, hostile word "hate" (when other words may be more accurate) may be different than the article's stance: that professors ought not face the choice of coddling college students by issuing trigger-warnings about words such as "violate" in curriculum... or risk suffering professional setbacks such as charges of micro-aggression by students.

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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
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    Women should be supportive and forgiving.

    That statement itself is promoting an unhealthy stereotype - you should have put a 'trigger warning' at the top of your post. LOL



    SNORK

    Good catch of a microaggression that might otherwise have gone unloved and unnoticed. Which would have been a terrible thing to waste, really. grin




    Last edited by HowlerKarma; 08/16/15 11:50 AM.

    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Quote
    Some might, alternatively, suggest that a habit of AVOIDING such terms, even when accurate, merely leads to a more passive-aggressive culture. This kind of thing then becomes a metaphorical game of "chicken" with emotional regulation and verbal acuity with euphemism governing the winners, because the underlying hostility is certainly not kept in check. It's my own hypothesis that such passive-aggressive games which tamp down negative feelings and leave them few/no outlets probably play some role in explosive acts of violence (such as school or workplace shootings).

    Such cultural norms result in hidden and covert violence and barriers which then become more difficult to confront effectively-- they don't go away because of papering them with "nice." However, if one complains of being the victim of such antics, one is labeled as "difficult" or "antagonistic" or even "inappropriate."

    It's just more dishonest. The best example of this is the patronizing elements of racist culture in the early 20th century "Jim Crow" laws-- separate wasn't equal, and everyone knew it, but saying so was "rude" or "offensive." Because apparently if one was African American, it was more "appropriate" to be pleased to have racially designated drinking fountains, schools, entrances, etc. smirk Complaining was seen as "offensive." Offensive to those who maintained the status quo, to be sure.

    It is also what lay under misogynistic cultural norms of "protecting" women from the harsher realities of life-- like literacy, current events, politics/governance, ownership of property, equal pay, workforce participation, engaging in male-dominated activities.... that kind of thing.

    This. Of course, one can go too far in the other direction, but I'd never consider "I hated this book" to be too far. "I hated this book and anyone who likes it is an idiot"--that is too far.

    I'd be in a book club with this woman in a minute. She sounds interesting.

    BTW, my husband and I both come from W.A.S.P. backgrounds but his family does the passive-aggressive stuff and mine is more the, uh, scream and yell variety. Again, scream and yell can go too far, but passive aggressive can make you feel literally insane, like gaslighting. Some may say you can see it in action here on these forums sometimes, too.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    This. Of course, one can go too far in the other direction, but I'd never consider "I hated this book" to be too far. "I hated this book and anyone who likes it is an idiot"--that is too far.
    People like to think that they have good taste, and saying that a book stinks will be viewed by some people who like the book as a criticism of them, even if you do not directly call them idiots. OTOH, a expressing a negative opinion of a books could start a discussion where other people learn about its flaws or where the original critic comes to a new appreciation of the book. One needs to make one's point strongly enough that people actually get the message but not so strongly that they view it as a personal attack and immediately discount it.

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